Orca kills trainer at SeaWorld Orlando

[elgarak]

I Uh, it's a wale.

"Whale".

And: "The term whale is sometimes used to refer to all cetaceans, but in more common usage it generally excludes the members of the Delphinoidea superfamily,..." [from Wikipedia], to which Orcas belong.

The local TV news reports here in Central Florida now claim that Dawn's actions are most likely to have triggered Tilli. If you watch the end of the posted video (just before Tilli grabbed her), she's kneeling fairly deep in the water beside Tilli -- essentially being 'in the water' with him. Whether or not this was against the rules I don't know. But it appears she was overconfident in her trust of Tilli. I also got that impression from the rest of the video.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

I think it's rather silly to place wild animals in captivity and expect them to act like kittens.

Where do you think kittens originally came from?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

.
What would be the proper conditions for a large apex predator in confinement?
I kinda think no confinement is proper.
Those floppy dorsal fins on the Orcas aren't natural.
What causes those?
White sharks have the good sense to die in captivity.

Didn't someone post a picture of a wild Orca with a flopped over dorsal fin in this thread?

I'm certainly not advocating any more Orcas be captured. The Sea World spokesperson said they only have the one Orca that wasn't born in captivity.

I'm not an expert who would know what the minimum size tank would be for an Orca, but I believe Jack Hanna was sincere when he said the Orcas are content at Sea World. We've mostly all seen zoo animals that clearly don't have good conditions. But that has changed in many zoos. And many zoos including Sea World are involved in rehabilitating and conserving wildlife and habitats. People get interested in conserving wildlife when they see the animals in person. Maybe in the ideal world there would be no zoos or aquariums but we are in the real world.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Yes, I'll agree that dolphins do seem quite friendly, and have even made 'friends' with sailors. Small Beluga and Narwhales aren't very dangerous either.

But none of them are apex predators, Killer Whales are. It's like thinking a wolf or crocodile would make a great pet, and then being shocked when it bit you one day. Some animals really just aren't meant for domestication (yes, I know wolves were domesticated WAAAAAAY back when, but it was a very long process, and I'm talking about taking a wolf from the wild and believing it could make a nice pet), they are meant to be hunting out in the wilds.

Killer Whales are beautiful creatures, and I can understand why water parks or zoos would want to keep them. The same with tigers, lions, bears...But, it shouldn't be a 'surprise' when one of these animals kills or maims a human. Captivity isn't going to erase that animals natural instincts.

Orcas don't kill humans in the wild. We aren't their prey for whatever reason. You can't compare them to wolves or crocs.

From Wiki: "Killer" stereotype

In Western cultures, killer whales were historically feared as dangerous, savage predators.[92] The first written description of a killer whale was given by Pliny the Elder in circa AD 70, who wrote, "Orcas (the appearance of which no image can express, other than an enormous mass of savage flesh with teeth) are the enemy of [other whales]... they charge and pierce them like warships ramming."[93] There have been very few confirmed attacks on humans by wild killer whales, none of which has been fatal.[94] In one instance, killer whales tried to tip ice floes on which a dog team and photographer of the Terra Nova Expedition was standing.[95] There is speculation that the barking of the sled dogs may have sounded enough like seal calls to trigger the killer whale's hunting curiosity. In the 1970s, a surfer in California was bitten, and in 2005 a boy in Alaska who was splashing in a region frequented by harbor seals was bumped by a killer whale that apparently misidentified him as prey.[96]

I don't see the source for that bolded section. But I know Orcas are not dangerous like a shark of that size would be. I live in Orca land. No one thinks of them as dangerous.

 

[Pinkymcfatfat]

I myself live in bear and coyote land...

Anyway, Skeptic Ginger, I'm not finding fault at all with Tilly, and yes, I do know that humans aren't the natural 'food' of killer whales. While some apex predators will eat a human if given half a chance (crocs, polar bears), most don't consider us to be in their normal diet.

But why take a chance caging up a massive predator in the equiv. of a bathtub? Why never expect it to 'snap' one day?

I just think there really are some critters we need to leave in their natural habitat. Killer whales are among them.

 

[JcR]

Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service Space requirements

Also here scroll down to Subpart E—Specifications for the Humane Handling, Care, Treatment, and Transportation of Marine Mammals subsection 3.104 Space requirements.

 

[Hallo Alfie]

Where do you think kittens originally came from?

Ummm, cats?
Or is this one of those rhetorical thingies?

 

[UndercoverElephant]

Orcas don't kill humans in the wild. We aren't their prey for whatever reason. You can't compare them to wolves or crocs.

From Wiki: "Killer" stereotypeI don't see the source for that bolded section. But I know Orcas are not dangerous like a shark of that size would be. I live in Orca land. No one thinks of them as dangerous.

Orcas like fleshy, fatty lumps of food. Humans (most, anyway) are too scrawny and bony for them: not worth eating. Even sharks don't usually kill humans on purpose, and for the same reason. The reason there are more shark attacks than Orca attacks is that the sharks aren't as clever and are therefore more likely to mistake humans for their preferred prey. Sharks appear to be more likely to just bite on something and see what it tastes like. They are basically just robotic killing machines, as are crocodiles whereas orcas are probably the most intelligent creatures in the sea. If I had to choose betweeen being dumped into the sea next to a pod of orcas or in the vicinity of a great white shark, I'd choose the orcas every time.

This orca not kill for food. It was probably making a point, in the only way it could.

BTW Everywhere in the sea is "orca land". This species can be found everywhere from the poles to the equator.

 

[bluesjnr]

Where do you think kittens originally came from?

Why Kittonia of course. It's not far from Orca Land where SG lives.

 

[UndercoverElephant]

Didn't someone post a picture of a wild Orca with a flopped over dorsal fin in this thread?

I'm certainly not advocating any more Orcas be captured. The Sea World spokesperson said they only have the one Orca that wasn't born in captivity.

I'm not an expert who would know what the minimum size tank would be for an Orca, but I believe Jack Hanna was sincere when he said the Orcas are content at Sea World. We've mostly all seen zoo animals that clearly don't have good conditions. But that has changed in many zoos. And many zoos including Sea World are involved in rehabilitating and conserving wildlife and habitats. People get interested in conserving wildlife when they see the animals in person. Maybe in the ideal world there would be no zoos or aquariums but we are in the real world.

I don't mind zoos which house and breed endangered species on captive breeding programs or creatures which can be kept in captivity without it causing too much distress to those animals (which basically means the animals have to be pretty small, pretty stupid or pretty immobile). If I had to list which animals are best suited to being kept in zoos then Orcas would probably the very last entry right at the bottom of the list.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service Space requirements

Also here scroll down to Subpart E—Specifications for the Humane Handling, Care, Treatment, and Transportation of Marine Mammals subsection 3.104 Space requirements.

I doubt that any marine mammals had any input on those requirements...

 

[varwoche]

BTW Everywhere in the sea is "orca land". This species can be found everywhere from the poles to the equator.

True. But fyi, northern Puget Sound (San Juan Islands) is unique, at least in the lower 49.

(Better yet, 200 miles north to Johnstone Strait, BC which has the largest(?) local population in the world, and if there's a more spectacular/reliable wild Orca viewing experience I'd like to know about it.)

 

[alfaniner]

Well, that little earthquake and tsunami sure blew this off the news, didn't it?

 

[I Ratant]

Think of the profit potential in displaying the wet suit the gal was wearing at the time.
I bet they have... and will!

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I myself live in bear and coyote land...

Anyway, Skeptic Ginger, I'm not finding fault at all with Tilly, and yes, I do know that humans aren't the natural 'food' of killer whales. While some apex predators will eat a human if given half a chance (crocs, polar bears), most don't consider us to be in their normal diet.

But why take a chance caging up a massive predator in the equiv. of a bathtub? Why never expect it to 'snap' one day?

I just think there really are some critters we need to leave in their natural habitat. Killer whales are among them.

According to Jack Hanna and the Sea World spokespersons, the conclusions about the Orcas in captivity being made by PETA and others with similar views are opposed by people with actual expertise about the whales.

I understand the emotional responses, and as I said, I certainly oppose any more wild capture of Orcas. But I do believe there are experts in this field and I trust what they say over the emotional opinions.

 

[JcR]

I doubt that any marine mammals had any input on those requirements...

The Orca's input: Could we have roughly 139 million square miles? At the very least could we have a hundred mile wide tank for our daily swimabout.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Orcas like fleshy, fatty lumps of food. Humans (most, anyway) are too scrawny and bony for them: not worth eating. Even sharks don't usually kill humans on purpose, and for the same reason. The reason there are more shark attacks than Orca attacks is that the sharks aren't as clever and are therefore more likely to mistake humans for their preferred prey. Sharks appear to be more likely to just bite on something and see what it tastes like. They are basically just robotic killing machines, as are crocodiles whereas orcas are probably the most intelligent creatures in the sea. If I had to choose betweeen being dumped into the sea next to a pod of orcas or in the vicinity of a great white shark, I'd choose the orcas every time.

This orca not kill for food. It was probably making a point, in the only way it could.

BTW Everywhere in the sea is "orca land". This species can be found everywhere from the poles to the equator.

Well they swim in our bays and Puget sound has at least two resident pods. I've seen them up close many times including in a kayak. No fear results while seeing a Grizzly in the wild up close is fun but nerve racking.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I don't mind zoos which house and breed endangered species on captive breeding programs or creatures which can be kept in captivity without it causing too much distress to those animals (which basically means the animals have to be pretty small, pretty stupid or pretty immobile). If I had to list which animals are best suited to being kept in zoos then Orcas would probably the very last entry right at the bottom of the list.

But what expertise in Orca biology is this based on?

There were many accusations when this first occurred that the whale was isolated from other Orcas, it was stressed, and so on. But that has been denied by Sea World. The whale was only in a separate tank some of the time, it wasn't stressed and if you look at the video just before the incident the whale does not look stressed.

 

[technoextreme]

Orcas like fleshy, fatty lumps of food. Humans (most, anyway) are too scrawny and bony for them: not worth eating. Even sharks don't usually kill humans on purpose, and for the same reason. The reason there are more shark attacks than Orca attacks is that the sharks aren't as clever and are therefore more likely to mistake humans for their preferred prey. Sharks appear to be more likely to just bite on something and see what it tastes like. They are basically just robotic killing machines, as are crocodiles whereas orcas are probably the most intelligent creatures in the sea. If I had to choose betweeen being dumped into the sea next to a pod of orcas or in the vicinity of a great white shark, I'd choose the orcas every time.

This orca not kill for food. It was probably making a point, in the only way it could.

BTW Everywhere in the sea is "orca land". This species can be found everywhere from the poles to the equator.

No. If I'm not mistaken sharks attack humans not because they are robotic killing machines but because they are the undersea equivalent of Mr. Magoo. They can't tell what they are attacking until they chomp on it. From their perspective there really isn't that much to distinguish us from a seal.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

True. But fyi, northern Puget Sound (San Juan Islands) is unique, at least in the lower 49.

(Better yet, 200 miles north to Johnstone Strait, BC which has the largest(?) local population in the world, and if there's a more spectacular/reliable wild Orca viewing experience I'd like to know about it.)

Cruising Glacier Bay when a pod is nearby is incredible. There's something about the silence, the cold air, the ambiance of the bay..... fantastic. But I'm not saying better mind you. I love the unpopulated parts of Puget Sound. Sigh..... [/reminisce]