Orca kills trainer at SeaWorld Orlando

[William Parcher]

Also, as far as this being an apparent accident as opposed to an attack, they've been reporting the whale grabbed the trainer's hair, one eyewitness interviewed said the whale thrashed/shook the trainer, and the death was reported to be "injuries" and drowning.

I think one likely scenario here is the woman's neck was broken in the first few minutes of the incident. It would be interesting to know just what injuries the Sea World official was referring to.

Early eyewitness reports talked about her initially being seized by the waist. There were some witnesses above the water and some below (looking through u/w windows). Witnesses also did see blood coming from Dawn's mouth. My hunch is that Tilly pulled her in and then under by the hair - then switched to a biting grip at her waist. Massive internal injuries caused the blood from her mouth. Tilly never did let go of her. The trainers had to get him into a small side pool and jack him up with a mechanical lift out of the water to actually get access to her body. They pulled her from his mouth. She was already dead.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I haven't seen a dog kill and eat a human yet. I don't think dogs attack because they are hungry. Like the poor animal of the OP, they have just had an unfortunate upbringing.

Sure they do. It's just that such circumstances are rare for dogs to be in. It's more often they kill humans or other animals as instinct (kill but not eat) or instinctual defense (the typical vicious attack by a dog).

I'm ready. Put up your dukes Ginger.

I don't believe in solving problems with violence. It seems bizarre to me that adults would ever slug it out.

 

[William Parcher]

Those floppy dorsal fins on the Orcas aren't natural. What causes those?

Floppy in the wild...

ETA: Even hooked is natural...

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Early eyewitness reports talked about her initially being seized by the waist. There were some witnesses above the water and some below (looking through u/w windows). Witnesses also did see blood coming from Dawn's mouth. My hunch is that Tilly pulled her in and then under by the hair - then switched to a biting grip at her waist. Massive internal injuries caused the blood from her mouth. Tilly never did let go of her. The trainers had to get him into a small side pool and jack him up with a mechanical lift out of the water to actually get access to her body. They pulled her from his mouth. She was already dead.

Where did you find this account? I'd be interested in reading/seeing it.

A lot of reports have been wrong. It's been clarified officially that she was initially grabbed by the hair, and the shaking was reported in an interview with a witness on the surface. I'm not sure which other accounts are accurate but these two seem to be.

 

[Pinkymcfatfat]

I'm not so sure. Many species of whales and dolphins are known to play in the wild. Dolphins love to swim in boat wakes, for example, and this behavior is not related to finding food.

That doesn't mean these animals never experience anger and sadness along with pleasure.

We have no way of knowing what this animal was feeling or what the animal intended to do by the behavior or what the animal knew about the outcome of its actions.

Yes, I'll agree that dolphins do seem quite friendly, and have even made 'friends' with sailors. Small Beluga and Narwhales aren't very dangerous either.

But none of them are apex predators, Killer Whales are. It's like thinking a wolf or crocodile would make a great pet, and then being shocked when it bit you one day. Some animals really just aren't meant for domestication (yes, I know wolves were domesticated WAAAAAAY back when, but it was a very long process, and I'm talking about taking a wolf from the wild and believing it could make a nice pet), they are meant to be hunting out in the wilds.

Killer Whales are beautiful creatures, and I can understand why water parks or zoos would want to keep them. The same with tigers, lions, bears...But, it shouldn't be a 'surprise' when one of these animals kills or maims a human. Captivity isn't going to erase that animals natural instincts.

 

[William Parcher]

Where did you find this account? I'd be interested in reading/seeing it.

A lot of reports have been wrong. It's been clarified officially that she was initially grabbed by the hair, and the shaking was reported in an interview with a witness on the surface. I'm not sure which other accounts are accurate but these two seem to be.

Yesterday afternoon all reports had her grabbed by the waist... then all were updated/corrected to grabbed by hair. I must have read 30 different articles with at least one commenting on the blood.

One witness said Dawn managed a breath when Tilly took her near the surface once (early), but afterwards she was kept under and out of sight.

I'll see what articles I can dig up.

 

[William Parcher]

Cached

Witnesses told the Orlando Sentinel that one of the park's whales grabbed the trainer by the upper arm, disappeared underwater and swam to the other side of the tank. Tilikum thrashed her around in the water as he swam rapidly around in the whale pool.

Brancheau was bleeding from the face or mouth, they said, and the whale turned her over and over as it swam.

Possibly the most graphic from Time...

Tillikum did not just knock Dawn Brancheau over and drag her down to drown at the bottom of the pool. According to a source, he rose out of the water to snag Brancheau by her ponytail, yanking her into the water for two brief but shocking episodes in the pool. After grabbing her by her hair, he toyed with her underwater for two minutes as she struggled to use trainer signals to calm him down and get him to release her. He knocked her about and, according to some reports, had her by the waist, her blood spreading through the clear water, in full sight of members of the public that had been watching Tillikum with another trainer through a glass underwater window.

She was still alive at the end of the first takedown after Tillikum let her go. But he watched as she tried to get to safety and then grabbed her again and held her for another minute underwater, this time apparently killing her. He then settled at the bottom of the pool, keeping her in his mouth. She apparently remained there until the staff at SeaWorld managed to beach him as they moved him to a separate pen. No one at SeaWorld was available to confirm reports that Brancheau's body was badly mangled.

 

[I Ratant]

Floppy in the wild...

ETA: Even hooked is natural...

.
I sit corrected.

 

[lector]

I was vaguely watching one of the U.S. network news shows last night when they were running a story on Tilikum. I was not paying close attention so I can't even tell you which network it was. However, they reported what I thought was a key detail: when Sealand Of The Pacific closed down and sold Tilikum to Seaworld Of Orlando in January 1992, one of the stipulations in the sale contract was that, because of his involvement in the 1991 trainer death, he was not to be used in orca shows; he was henceforth to be used for breeding purposes only.

If that's true, it raises a shedload of questions.

I didn't keep closer track on this aspect of the story because I assumed it would be all over the Net today & be the chief topic of discussion. However, I can't find a single reference to it via Google. Weird. Maybe it was a faulty report & they've buried it.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Possibly the most graphic from Time...

Well, we all know about anecdotal evidence ..

Don't we ?

Where was the person that witnessed this ?

Did you see the size of that Tank?

This witness would have had to be all over the tank, both above and below the surface...


P.S.

I see the writer is not quoting a witness. He's making this stuff up..

Irresponsible !

 

[William Parcher]

Is that's true, that will be an IMMENSE relief, I assure you.

I found more pictures. There are some similarities but I don't think it's her.

 

[William Parcher]

I suspect that SeaWorld has surveillance cameras on the crowd, the pool and possibly even underwater as well.

Greg, it doesn't really matter what Tilikum's actions were in relation to your argument position. His mental state cannot be proven and he cannot talk about it. It's impossible to prove that he intended to kill or even harm her. He can't even confess to anything.

 

[Ducky]

Let's ask Sigfried and Roy about how good an idea taking a dangerous animal and attempting domestication to put on a show for people is.

Eventually, you get bit. May not be soon, may take a while, but some day this very dangerous animal will be cranky enough to decide they'd rather have a snack than jump through the hoops.

I fully support aquariums and zoos, but I don't support trying to pretend these animals are pets and should do tricks for our amusement.

 

[slingblade]

It happens when a pronoun is used. "That" could have referred to either comment of Zig's.

So, my apologies for misreading your comment, but you needn't have a cow over it.

No, it referred to the comment I quoted, and only the comment I quoted, and I'll have all the cows I like, miss.

 

[Hallo Alfie]

Floppy in the wild...

ETA: Even hooked is natural...

Brewers droop?

Sure they do. It's just that such circumstances are rare for dogs to be in. It's more often they kill humans or other animals as instinct (kill but not eat) or instinctual defense (the typical vicious attack by a dog).

Any citations on that? I have never heard of a dog killing a human to have for dinner. Especially not domesticated animals.

I don't believe in solving problems with violence. It seems bizarre to me that adults would ever slug it out.

Then I win by forfeit.
Ah well, a win is a win.

No, it referred to the comment I quoted, and only the comment I quoted, and I'll have all the cows I like, miss.

Here, take my gloves.

 

[rockinkt]

.
Oh happy day!
I've passe this on to the rightwingnuts that fill my mail box with Obamadidit crap!

Hmmmm...Orcas are black... Obama is black...I think I'm seeing a connection here...

 

[Hallo Alfie]

Hmmmm...Orcas are black... Obama is black...I think I'm seeing a connection here...

Orcas are black and white, Obam....

Never mind

 

[Skeptical Greg]

( relatively ) High quality video of Dawn Brancheau interacting with Tilikum right before the incident that led to her death ..

http://www.wesh.com/video/22671481/index.html

 

[I Ratant]

There's precedents for killing dangerous performing animals.
Electrocution...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topsy_(elephant)
.
Hanging..
http://www.blueridgecountry.com/archive/mary-the-elephant.html

 

[Rairun]

I find it bizarre when people (not necessarily anyone here) say stuff like, "In the Orca world, you can murder humans and still keep your day job." Uh, it's a wale. Even if the intent was to kill and not to play, you can't hold it accountable. Some people really do have a f*cked up sense of revenge.