Ongoing Adventures of Kyle Rittenhouse

[Emily's Cat]

Yes or no. If Kyle chose to not bring a gun would anyone have even paid any attention to him at all?

Yes or no. If Maggie chose not to wear that revealing outfit at the club would anyone have even paid any attention to her at all?

 

[stanfr]

"Therefore the minor shouldn't have run away, and the minor definitely shouldn't have defended themself from an attacker. You see, by running away and being armed, Kyle FORCED Rosenbaum to attack them in the first place!"

"I threatened to kill him, and pointed a gun in his face. He got scared and tried to disarm me, so I blew him away cause I was afraid he'd kill me if I didn't kill him first".
Not saying that is a valid analogy--am saying that is how stupid and wrong your analogies are to this case.

 

[stanfr]

Yes or no. If Maggie chose not to wear that revealing outfit at the club would anyone have even paid any attention to her at all?

Probably, some sick ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ would've been turned on by the less revealing outfit. Some people, like Kyle, are just morally depraved.

 

[plague311]

Probably, some sick ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ would've been turned on by the less revealing outfit. Some people, like Kyle, are just morally depraved.

The whole idea is dumb as hell because Emily's fake woman wouldn't call her friend right after to say she finally got raped by someone. She wouldn't be bragging about it. She wouldn't have been threatened with rape and then circled back in hopes to get raped.

The whole thing is so ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ stupid that I'm at a loss to even quantify it. I'm sure, to her, it's this witty, apt comparison but it's not. Comparing a woman being raped to a kid going out with a gun completely avoids intent. Kyle intended to get in a fight, women don't intend to get raped. It's another glaring hole in her "I'm a super duper feminist but at the same time I'm going to pretend that a kid looking to kill someone is the same as an innocent woman out at a bar." I just...I can't believe how dumb that is, Jesus ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ Christ.

 

[Emily's Cat]

As you keep attempting to fall back on the law: in law, the chain of responsibility begins with the first intentional illegal action, in this case the unauthorized acquisition of a firearm and bringing this illegally obtained firearm to a conflict. This is how the legal system establishes accountability all the time.

So in law, when a 17 year old female illegally enters a bar, then that female is legally at fault for their own rape?

 

[Emily's Cat]

Your analogy is stupid, and perverse.. This was a self-defense case. You don't seem to understand that.
As for the rest of your nonsensical response, you have not been paying attention. If I were on that jury, I very well might have voted for acquittal, albeit very reluctantly. But I would not have excused Kyle's behavior as you want to do.

Do you read? I've not excused their behavior. But their bad choices still don't make them a murderer, as so many here have opined.

I've already said, more than once, that Rittenhouse shouldn't have been there in the first place, and shouldn't have been armed. None of which, however, deprives Rittenhouse of the right to self defense.

Then of course, I'm of the opinion that probably about 90% of the people out there shouldn't have been there at all, and they shouldn't have been setting ◊◊◊◊ on fire several nights in a row either.

I'll ask you the same question I asked Zig:
If Grosskreutz had managed to get ahead shot off and killed Kyle before having his arm blown off, do you think he was not guilty under the laws of Wisconsin?

Actually, yes, I do think that had Grosskreutz shot Rittenhouse, they would have had a reasonable cases for having done so in defense of others. Both are reasonable views, from the perspective of each actor involved.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Before answering that, you have to come to the conclusion that Rosenbaum chasing him was an "assault" Are you sure it was?

Grown ass adult throws stuff at a minor and then starts chasing them. What do you think was going on? Do you think Rosenbaum just really, really, really wanted a hug?

 

[Emily's Cat]

Is Rittenbaum a trans between Kyle and his victim?

Kyle and their ATTACKER. I experienced a neural incident between brain and fingers

 

[plague311]

Grown ass adult throws stuff at a minor and then starts chasing them. What do you think was going on? Do you think Rosenbaum just really, really, really wanted a hug?

How would he have ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ known that Kyle was a minor? Did he check his ID? Now, since your stupid "woman being raped" fallacy ◊◊◊◊ the bed you're going with "grown men beating on minors"? He was 17. He wasn't a 10 year old. He was grown enough to illegally obtain a gun, he was grown enough to arm himself and go someplace he wasn't invited, and he was grown enough to confront an innocent person and point a gun in their face before all this popped off.

Another swing and a miss!

 

[stanfr]

Grown ass adult throws stuff at a minor and then starts chasing them. What do you think was going on? Do you think Rosenbaum just really, really, really wanted a hug?

You didn't answer my question. But to answer your question--I don't know what he wanted. He obviously was foolish for chasing a coward armed with an AR. We don't know what prompted him to give chase--some have suggested he wanted to disarm Kyle. That would not be an assault.

 

[plague311]

You didn't answer my question. But to answer your question--I don't know what he wanted. He obviously was foolish for chasing a coward armed with an AR. We don't know what prompted him to give chase--some have suggested he wanted to disarm Kyle. That would not be an assault.

You know, that's kind of an interesting angle. What is the policy for citizens arrest? Here we have an underage (which according to Emily's Cat apparently everyone should have known) individual that is illegally handling an illegally acquired firearm, perhaps he was trying to make a citizens arrest!

 

[stanfr]

Do you read? I've not excused their behavior.

Huh, I must have read the wrong post..so sorry.

Actually, yes, I do think that had Grosskreutz shot Rittenhouse, they would have had a reasonable cases for having done so in defense of others. Both are reasonable views, from the perspective of each actor involved.

Terrific! We are making progress. Not sure why you are arguing against people who agree with you then. But examine your response. It is *very* rare for two people in some sort of conflict to have a mutual self defense claim. That is why the law, and prosecutors, take such pains to look at who was the initial aggressor, who had the greater claim to the defense. Here, you literally had an active shooter, who had just killed someone, running away from the scene, and a person who stated they were trying to disarm that person so that no one else was killed, and he even put his arms up in the air in a very well know sign of "I am not a threat to you"--and yet he still was nearly killed by the kid with the AR. Seems pretty clear to me who had the greater claim of self defense.

 

[stanfr]

You know, that's kind of an interesting angle. What is the policy for citizens arrest? Here we have an underage (which according to Emily's Cat apparently everyone should have known) individual that is illegally handling an illegally acquired firearm, perhaps he was trying to make a citizens arrest!

That might have been his motivation--unfortunately we can't ask him. It's certainly as plausible or more so as the idea (put forth by the defense) that he was trying to grab Kyle's gun because he couldn't legally own one himself.

 

[Trausti]

That might have been his motivation--unfortunately we can't ask him. It's certainly as plausible or more so as the idea (put forth by the defense) that he was trying to grab Kyle's gun because he couldn't legally own one himself.

Yeah, being a convicted sex offender could limit your right to own one.

 

[Thermal]

Turns out that no, I don't see wearing a short dress and flirting with a person as a mitigating factor for sexual assault. I don't care how provocative the attacker thinks the short dress and flirty behavior is.

Nor I. Flirting and dressing flattering does not convey the message "I wish to be violently assaulted". Carrying a gun at the ready does convey the message "I wish to violently assault".

Kyle wasn't in a defensive or neutral carrying position..He was in an aggressive one, more analogous to your theoretical young lady bent over with her skirt up screaming "◊◊◊◊ me, anyone!"

 

[stanfr]

Yeah, being a convicted sex offender could limit your right to own one.

Yep, and begs the question of why he didn't have one anyways, since he was supposedly looking to kill someone... I mean, the law didn't stop Kyle from getting his AR.

 

[Thermal]

Yep, and begs the question of why he didn't have one anyways, since he was supposedly looking to kill someone... I mean, the law didn't stop Kyle from getting his AR.

and then going to a riot that all but advertised "welcome to all the fascists who want to head their heads caved in tonight".

Kyle said "hot damn, count me in! But I better bring a rifle with hundreds of yards of range, just in case something unforeseeable happens".

 

[Trebuchet]

Hey, guys, it's pointless continuing the argument when there's Sooper Seekrit PROOF that Saint Kyle was totally innocent of everything!

 

[Thermal]

Actually, yes, I do think that had Grosskreutz shot Rittenhouse, they would have had a reasonable cases for having done so in defense of others. Both are reasonable views, from the perspective of each actor involved.

Then whoever shoots first gets to claim they were the victim, and the other the aggressor? That's bat ◊◊◊◊ lunacy.

 

[AmyStrange]

ONce again...

"I'm not responding to whether she deserved it or not. I'm responding to the fact that dressing in a provocative matter is what started it. If she hadn't worn that short skirt and danced in such a sexy way, she wouldn't have been raped"

I'm not disagreeing with you, Emily, because once again, all I am saying is that the timeline didn't start with the chase. It started before that with Rittenhouse carrying a gun, but that also doesn't mean I think he deserved to be chased or hassled.

And besides, dressing provocatively is a matter of opinion anyway, because what I think is provocative might not be to someone else.

Hell, to some people, just being a girl is enough reason for some jackasses to rape them.

Now, if she'd also brought a gun and started waving it around, then yeah, that would be more in line with what Rittenhouse did, but that still doesn't mean she deserved to be raped, or that he deserved to be chased or hassled because he had a gun, and as always, that is just my opinion.

Your mileage may vary of course.