One possible way to end Affirmative Action?

JAR, there are people who believe it's the government's job to run every aspect of human life. They don't really believe in freedom, in my opinion, since they are willing to sacrifice it so readily.
 
BillyTK[/i] [b]Of course said:


Actually, I do mean all available. You have a citation you'd care to share of ANY study that does not offer that as a reasonable conclusion? LOL. Mismeasure of Man, perhaps?
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:rotflmao: Sure! Could you cite any study that does? The Bell Curve, perhaps?
 
Genghis Pwn said:
Well there are anti-discrimination laws on the books, which are used all the time.

For example, some asian and hispanic people are suing Abercrombie & Fitch right now on grounds similar to your fictitious company.

Abercrombie Faces Discrimination Lawsuit

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Since you asked me personaly, I am a libertarian, and I think companies should be able hire anyone they want. If they are racists, this fact will be brought out by the media, MTV, activists, etc, and the company's sales will be hit in a major way, not only by the minorities being injured, but by the overwhelming majority of white people as well.

If Ambercrombie wants to promote an idealistic "white frat boy" image for whatever reason, that is their god-damn business, literally. I don't like the government telling me who I have to hire, anymore than I like them telling me who I have to marry, or who I have to be friends with.
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I take your point but I'm not so sure that a company would face any significant consumer backlash. I'm also not sure if it is realistic to put the onus back on people to take endless legal actions. Isn't this the whole point of governments enacting legislation? There are laws that retailers cannot rip people off, we don't say that it should be up to each person who is ripped off to take individual legal action.
I agree that employers should be able to employ whoever they like, within the laws applicable to employment practices. If your democratically elected governments institute AA laws then my philosophy would be that you either accept the laws or vote out the legislators...
 
bpesta22 said:
If you're interested in what a top notch scientist thinks about this, post some quotes from Arthur Jensen.

B
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I'm sure that Jensen is a really nice guy, is genuine in his beliefs and motivations and is kind to puppies, but "top notch scientist"? Really?
 
"So you're glad you were discriminated against? Move to Zimbabwe. You'll be in heaven under Mugabe and his anti-white racist government."

Regardless of how low I set my expectation regarding your responses, you seem to limbo under them with room to spare. The force is weak in you, it is.
 
DavidJames said:
I was a "victim" of AA. Many years ago I was denied a better job in a steel mill, a job given to a minority with less seniority. That's one of maybe 25 jobs I failed to get in my 34 years in the work force. That's the only one in which AA was a factor. I suspect that in many of the others I was at least as qualified as the final choice. I was the "victim" of subjective decision making. That first time remains the only job I ever "lost" that I haven't looked back on as a lost opportunity. I moved on and while I'll never know, I'd like to think we are both better off for that decision. I know I am.
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How'd you get your job in the first place?
 
"How'd you get your job in the first place?"

I applied :)

The steel mill was very busy at that time. My first job was a laborer, pretty much assigned to whatever crap work was needed. The job I bid on was machinist.
 
BillyTK said:

I'm sure that Jensen is a really nice guy, is genuine in his beliefs and motivations and is kind to puppies, but "top notch scientist"? Really?
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Take a look at his vita.

How do you define top notch?
 
Yaeh but did ya know someone or sumthin.

What Im getting at is this sort of.......unintential racism that may go on in hiring. Most people get jobs because of who they know or who they are related to. So you can see a cycle where the workforce is all connected. Minorities may not make it in cause they dont have that connection.

Then theres the whole "most qualified" thing. Many hiring situations its tough to objectivley say who is the most qualified. thats why theres the job interview, otherwise you would just hire just from reading the resume/application. The interview process can be another way that racism creeps into the process.
 
"you would just hire just from reading the resume/application"

That's exactly how I was hired, no real interview. This was a steel mill that was booming at the time. They were looking for warm bodies.

"a cycle where the workforce is all connected. Minorities may not make it in cause they dont have that connection."

I agree and that was the main point of my personal anecdote. I have not been selected for many jobs for many reasons, some of which had nothing to do with qualifications. The one a pointed out, because of AA, I didn't have a problem with because I agreed with the goals of the program. Now, at the time, I was not happy, but then I was young and full of myself. Since then I've matured and am able to look at things from a different (better) perspective.
 
JAR said:
Affirmative Action is bad because it punishes people of one race for something that they or some other people of their race might have done.
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How are white people punished as a whole by Affirmative Action?


Ghengis Prawn said:
Well there are anti-discrimination laws on the books, which are used all the time.
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You know, these anti-descrimination laws are Affirmative Action laws. Read that little history I posted in this very thread.

No one has yet to demonstrate their claim that AA somehow injures white people!?!
 
JAR said:

My father will occasionally do that left-wing thing where he'll say something good about non-white people with much enthusiasm or jump at a chance to say how stupid white people are.
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Ooook , this sounds scary, you have my sympathy.
 
c0rbin said:

No one has yet to demonstrate their claim that AA somehow injures white people!?!
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Why worry about white people? The groups AA harms are the groups being "helped".

Remember AFDC? Who got "helped"? Unless you wanted to breed what is now 4th generation rioters.
 
c0rbin said:


How are white people punished as a whole by Affirmative Action?
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Didnt you here? According to the 10,000 people didnt get into Harvard last year the reason was because their slot was taken by an AA case.

Life is a breeze when you have brown skin. That's why tanning salons are so popular.
 
So I could bring up the idea of the Bushman IQ test, in any culture there are notions that are considered valuable , therefore the Bushman IQ test is going to be biased twoards Bushmen.


BUMP>

I agree Ghengis, it would be nice if the government did not have step in at times to redress a wrong, but what about when it is the government that is biogted. How do you level the playing field?

Is there a system that could promote freedom and level the playing field?

Not having the federal government intervene would mean that he informal Jim Crow system would till be in place. (Whay a great system, a decorated black war vetran can't get served dinner in Miame during WWII but a german POW can.)
 
hammegk said:


I can help here.

Billy(White men can too jump)TK defn. "If they agree with me, they are topnotch".
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:rotflmao: I'm glad you've got such an excellent sense of humour going for you...!
 
c0rbin said:
JAR said:


How are white people punished as a whole by Affirmative Action?


Ghengis Prawn said:


You know, these anti-descrimination laws are Affirmative Action laws.
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Anti-discrimination and Affirmative Action are not the same thing. Please don't pretend that they are. In fact, they are complete and total opposite policies, by definition.

Anti-discrimination says that we should not discriminate against people based on their race. That's what those words mean.

Affirmative Action says that we need quotas for people of certain races. In other words, we need to discriminate on the basis of race.

To confuse these two concepts, and treat them as though they are the same concept is an error. Please don't anyone make that mistake.

Anti-discrimination is correct, and as this world should be, IMO. Affirmative Action is by definition racist, and I find the concept offensive.
 
Tmy said:

Didnt you here? According to the 10,000 people didnt get into Harvard last year the reason was because their slot was taken by an AA case.

Life is a breeze when you have brown skin. That's why tanning salons are so popular.
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Yup! Without affirmative action, a white kid's chance of getting into university increases from about 20% to... about 22%.

:rolleyes:
 
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