One possible way to end Affirmative Action?

Tony said:


How do you know?
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I heard it on the NPR, thier was a radio piece about it, they said that there were something like 70 studrnts who got in with LOWER LSAT and GPA than the person whp brought the suit. And they just pointed out that the suit was only about affirmative action, not all the other ways people get into law school without having the best scores.
 
BillyTK said:


Which sociological ideology are we talking about? Functional, structural, post-structural, interactionist, feminist or Marxist? ;) :P

There's a third option though--interaction between genetics and environment; you might have a gene to make you grow six foot tall, but without adequate nutrition it's not worth a damn.
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That still comes down to social. The potential is there, but not realized due ot environment.

The ideology that I just said in the previous post. That people are a product of their environment, so AA tries to help improve the environment in which future generations will grow up in by living those that are disadvantaged a leg up.

Is anyone going to claim that blacks as a group have not improved socioeconomically in the past 50 years? I think I rmember reading that they have shown the largest increase in income of any segment of the population, yet they are still behind most groups.

Is anyone goign to argue that that increase is a bad thing? I'd like to see that.
 
On a very broad level I agree that AA is not a nessecarily good thing. But at the University of Illinois it is very appaerent that for somereason there are very few ethnic african students. I think that the real problems come about when you have police and fire departments that don't reflect the community they serve. Its like trying to find male social workers, there are just very few.

But I think we still have to address the fact that there are plenty of ways that people use power to get ahead in life, the USA is not a meriticracy, money had a very strong influence on the system. There are too many people who get into college and jobs beacuse they have money or know someone with money.

I agree with the goals of AA, as a piss poor half measure, but this board has made me more aware that maybe it is a CLASS issue we should be addressing and not a 'minority' issue.

Peace
 
I agree with the goals of AA, as a piss poor half measure, but this board has made me more aware that maybe it is a CLASS issue we should be addressing and not a 'minority' issue.
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Indeed. Unfortunately, due to the history of this nation, the two--class and ethnicity--are difficult to rend assunder.

Just my feelings here, having spent time in private and public schools throughout my education, I think it has been and will be a rare thing for the average white male to lose out to a minority simply because of the "minority issue." The doors open to white males across the board are many more.

Sure, one will be able to find the occasional dramatic case of "reverse discrimination", and I'm sure it makes for great conversation around the country club, but I think, as a society, we will be the better in the long run for the bending we do for the sake of inclusion.
 
Genghis Pwn said:
What if a bunch of white high school kids started listing themselves as "African American" on college applications in order to take advantage of the unfair Affirmative Action system?

If it came down to it, the white kids could cite recent mitochondrial DNA evidence that suggests all modern humans came from African ancestors. Or the white kids could just say, "Prove I am not African American." Then the schools would be in the messy position of having to make ALL applicants prove their African or Hispanic lineage. Lol, good luck with that. I'm from Europe and I can't even trace my family tree back more than a hundred and fifty years or so.

What would the liberals do to counter this tactic? Bring out the old skin color test cards? Haha. I would like to see that! It would expose them so perfectly.
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Heres a better way to get rid of this Affirmative Action... we just stop using it. Simple, concise, effective. When did acedemics become more about skin color rather than merit. Affirmative Action supports the idea that people of different races are different and should be treated as such... and that sounds like a form of discrimination (actually I believe it would be something called "reverse descrimination")... and everyone knows descrimination = not good.
 
Lol at people who pretend it's impossible that blacks are intellectually inferior. The BELL CURVE seemed pretty straightforward and clear to me when I read it.

I guess you can completely rule it out, even though you have no facts or evidence.
 
Lol at people who pretend it's impossible that blacks are intellectually inferior. The BELL CURVE seemed pretty straightforward and clear to me when I read it.
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You see, the problem is that once you admit that you troll people must wonder if any statement you make is serious, or intended for trolling.

Like the boy who cried wolf.
 
Genghis Pwn said:
Lol at people who pretend it's impossible that blacks are intellectually inferior. The BELL CURVE seemed pretty straightforward and clear to me when I read it.

I guess you can completely rule it out, even though you have no facts or evidence.
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Wasn't that just black broads, though?
 
Genghis Pwn said:
Lol at people who pretend it's impossible that blacks are intellectually inferior. The BELL CURVE seemed pretty straightforward and clear to me when I read it.

I guess you can completely rule it out, even though you have no facts or evidence.
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I haven't ruled it out. I'm wanting you to make that argument.
 
Malachi151 said:


I haven't ruled it out. I'm wanting you to make that argument.
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Well, Malachi, there are lots of people here who like to argue about the validity of the BullS**t Curve. I knew it would come up in this discussion sooner or later.

But for some reason, we never really see much addressing of prenatal care, education, etc, issues. A few people do bother to give lip service, and then proceed to claim that a few tests are completely unslanted socially, etc, and that they show that genetics is the primary determination... It gets tiresome, and the same people, when challenged, resort to simple, arrogant namecalling instead of addressing the issues.

(Which I suspect is because they can't, they don't show that race is what it's made out to be, they can't show that things like nutrition, prenatal care, etc, don't matter, and they don't want to take into account the economic implications. Given what has been demonstrated about early childhood development, making claims like "so you say it happens before year 2" and so on look like aggressive debating manouevers from someone who isn't interested in seeing the other side at all.)

Don't take me for one of them.
 
Malachi151 said:


I haven't ruled it out. I'm wanting you to make that argument.
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Read the BELL CURVE. The case is laid out clearly that blacks on average have significantly lower IQs than whites and asians.
 
jj said:


Well, Malachi, there are lots of people here who like to argue about the validity of the BullS**t Curve. I knew it would come up in this discussion sooner or later.

But for some reason, we never really see much addressing of prenatal care, education, etc, issues. A few people do bother to give lip service, and then proceed to claim that a few tests are completely unslanted socially, etc, and that they show that genetics is the primary determination... It gets tiresome, and the same people, when challenged, resort to simple, arrogant namecalling instead of addressing the issues.

(Which I suspect is because they can't, they don't show that race is what it's made out to be, they can't show that things like nutrition, prenatal care, etc, don't matter, and they don't want to take into account the economic implications. Given what has been demonstrated about early childhood development, making claims like "so you say it happens before year 2" and so on look like aggressive debating manouevers from someone who isn't interested in seeing the other side at all.)

Don't take me for one of them.
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jj, even blacks from high income upper-middle-class black families score exactly the same, that is much lower than whites and asians, even whites and asians from poor, broken homes. THE BELL CURVE addresses that issue.
 
Genghis Pwn said:


Read the BELL CURVE. The case is laid out clearly that blacks on average have significantly lower IQs than whites and asians.
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BWAHA HAHAHAHHAHA

Let's get this straight.

Let us assume, PURELY for argument's sake, that IQ means something. Then, let us assume, again purely for argument's sake, that education, social climate, medical care (including prenatal) nuitrition, and all other environmental factors HAVE NO EFFECT on "IQ". Let us presume again, purely for argument's sake, that it makes any statistical sense to combine all those different tests, that the tests were all socially and culturally unbiased, etc.

Even if we accept all those absurd ideas, race accounts for 25% of the difference in IQ.

This is "clear" exactly how, Ghengis? It's "NOT CLEAR" at all that the data shows anything even remotely conclusive.
 
Genghis Pwn said:


jj, even blacks from high income upper-middle-class black families score exactly the same, that is much lower than whites and asians, even whites and asians from poor, broken homes. THE BELL CURVE addresses that issue.
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No, sir, it does not "address" that issue, it BEGS it.

Just go back to Stormfront.
 
Oh, and since I bothered to reply to Ghengis, which is obviously a waste of time since he's only here to try to get people to hate each other:

Ghengis, it comes as no surprise at all that your "solution" to affirmative action is simply advising minors to lie.

Pathetic.
 
DavidJames said:
"blacks on average have significantly lower IQs than whites and asians."

Perhaps this thread should be moved to stormfront.org
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Nice way to take that out of context. I said that is what the BOOK asserts.
 
jj said:


No, sir, it does not "address" that issue, it BEGS it.

Just go back to Stormfront.
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Lol, the ad hom "racist" attacks commence simply because I offered a skeptical view of people who made blanket statements saying intelligence couldn't possibly be a factor in why different races perform differently in school. I asked for some evidence, then I provided the BELL CURVE as a source of evidence that contridicts the blanket statements about intelligence differences in races being "impossible."

That is very feeble of you to fall back on ad hom attacks so quickly! You did that in record time!
 
"Nice way to take that out of context. I said that is what the BOOK asserts."

Yes, you are correct, you are simply parroting the book, I didn't mean to imply (which is why I didn't use your name) that YOU believed that. My comment stands, however, the Bell Curve is nonsense and has been dismissed, here is one example.

http://www.dartmouth.edu/~chance/course/topics/curveball.html

So, my comment was more an editorial about how I feel about those that support that book.

Please don't let me stop you from continuing your discussion, however. I will find it very reveling.
 
Lothian said:

Interesting theory. Do all Mexicans and blacks steal the white kids lunches or just the lower class ones ? Do they ever mug middle and upper class Mexicans and blacks. What about the lower class white kids do they mug and steal food from the upper and middle class blacks and Mexicans?
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Just the lower class Mexican and black kids do the lunch stealing. They might mug middle and upper class Mexicans and blacks. I don't know recollect them doing that at my school. When I was in sixth grade, I begged my mother to let me have my hair dyed black because I noticed that my friends who had darker hair than I did didn't get bothered as much by the local kids. My mother didn't let me and I'm glad she didn't because I later knew a girl who got into that goth stuff and dyed her hair black and it looked fake.

I never saw the lower class white kids stealing from people at my school, but there also wasn't very many of them. Due to their small numbers(I only remember seeing about five at my school), they couldn't do that thing where you get in a group and corner someone in a restroom.
 
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