On 9/11, WTC7 Collapse Was Firemen's Concern (controlled demolition debunked)

[Edx]

If you think the FDNY were "stupid and/or lying", that is your belief, not mine.

MM

No, its not my belief, obviously. Its the fact that they have to be to rationalise why they said the things they said, why they havent challenged it in over a decade and why they dont support you. I guess you could say they do know, but don't care, but thats not really better. Maybe you could suggest an alternative explanation.

 

[Justin39640]

...
This forum does permit lying and the truthers Official Story supporters are a shining example of this.

9/11 Truth supporters get nailed to the cross every time we forget to dot an "i".

MM

You shoulda paid attention to the first part of that post:

Thousands of professionals who were on-scene don't simultaneously make the same mistake.

Don't edit my posts. Type it out your *********** self.

 

[332nd]

They were human.

Not everything in life is black or white.

MM

So hundreds of professional firemen, many who are veterans with years of experience, all made the same mistake of not being able to tell which building the smoke was coming from?

 

[Justin39640]

So hundreds of professional firemen, many who are veterans with years of experience, all made the same mistake of not being able to tell which building the smoke was coming from?

Yup. Apparently that's his story.

 

[KreeL]

Which has absolutely nothing to do with the size of the fire. Temperature != size. I'm pretty sure this is something most children old enough to cross the street alone could grasp.

The WTC fires had different causes from the Pirelli fires, and were several times larger.

That's not an actual answer to the question. Your opinion was specifically asked, not that of others. Is it 'Yes'? 'No'? 'IDK'? State it in a clear and unambiguous manner.

I can agree with you somewhat, but wasn't the Pirelli tower quite a bit smaller? Wouldn't it take less fire to heat up a smaller place?

 

[332nd]

I can agree with you somewhat, but wasn't the Pirelli tower quite a bit smaller? Wouldn't it take less fire to heat up a smaller place?

So you don't understand that the fuel for a fire effects the temperature?

 

[KreeL]

So you don't understand that the fuel for a fire effects the temperature?

Not sure you understand. If you have pure kerosene, and you drop some on your sofa and ignite it. Can you estimate the maximum temperature you would achieve in your experiment?

 

[332nd]

Not sure you understand. If you have pure kerosene, and you drop some on your sofa and ignite it. Can you estimate the maximum temperature you would achieve in your experiment?

If you know the materials your sofa is made out of & their average burning temperatures along with the temperature of kerosene. Yes.

 

[KreeL]

Okay then. How about if you stack up 10 sofas, add some wooden and plastic chairs, a couple desks, and you pour 100 gallons of kerosene on the pile and ignite it. What would be the maximum temperature you could achieve?

 

[leftysergeant]

I can agree with you somewhat, but wasn't the Pirelli tower quite a bit smaller? Wouldn't it take less fire to heat up a smaller place?

So freaking what? How, besides being tall, did the construction of the Pirelli building resemble the WTC? Was it all steel? Was it steel clad in concrete? Was there a concrete core?

These things matter when trying to predict the behavior of a structure in a fire.

 

[leftysergeant]

Okay then. How about if you stack up 10 sofas, add some wooden and plastic chairs, a couple desks, and you pour 100 gallons of kerosene on the pile and ignite it. What would be the maximum temperature you could achieve?

Who cares? Stack enough couches in a pile and torch them, and you will make a fire hot enough to cause the steel trusses of a roof to collapse. I should expect the same heat source to also cause a reaaaaaaly long free-span truss supporting several tons of concrete to collapse. You really need to learn some of the basics of fire science.

 

[332nd]

Okay then. How about if you stack up 10 sofas, add some wooden and plastic chairs, a couple desks, and you pour 100 gallons of kerosene on the pile and ignite it. What would be the maximum temperature you could achieve?

... K, what's giving you trouble? Do you not understand what is meant by "materials the sofas are made of"? Do you not understand sofas can be made out of different materials? Do you not understand different materials burn at different temperatures?

 

[leftysergeant]

... K, what's giving you trouble? Do you not understand what is meant by "materials the sofas are made of"? Do you not understand sofas can be made out of different materials? Do you not understand different materials burn at different temperatures?

Apparently, he hasn't quite gotten the concept of "accelerant," eithr.

The kerosene would actually not make the fire a bit hotter, per se. Kerosene burns at a relatively low temperature. It is useful for things like cooking stoves, space heaters and lamps specificly because it burns relatively cleanly and completely while producing moderately intense heat.

Coal, wood or plastics will produce a great deal more heat when they burn, but take a bit longer to ignite. It also takes a bit of time for a fire to spread entirely over the surface of a solid fuel source. Kerosene just gets the fire going everywhere at once.

 

[000063]

They were human.

Not everything in life is black or white.

MM

Evasion.

Please present an option other than "lying" or "mistaken"(incompetent). "Being human" covers both of those, so you'll have to be more precise.

I then suggest you examine the timeline and the NIST info which shows the major fire activity had progressed well west of the collapse point by 5:20 p.m.

What you won't be told by Official Story supporters here and what is well documented by the NIST, is that at the time of collapse initiation, the required inferno around the critical column 79 was not apparent.

MM

If someone shoots you in the stomach, and you die of blood loss halfway to the hospital, does that mean they did not kill you?

You've seen the collapse zone.

A far far cry from the zone the FYNY thought prudent.

The idea of a safety zone is to be safe. Or do you expect them to--

They certainly did not consider such a symmetrical collapse a reasonable expectation.

Assuming it was "symmetrical" (it wasn't), are you saying the FDNY should've known exactly how the building would fall? Wouldn't that be even more suspicious than to apparently err on the side of caution?

Only bigoted Official Story supporters like yourself do.

MM

Incorrect, evasion.

 

[000063]

I can agree with you somewhat, but wasn't the Pirelli tower quite a bit smaller? Wouldn't it take less fire to heat up a smaller place?

The size of the fire is not the only factor in determining temperature or the rate at which an area is heated, nor is the size of the area. The amount of acceleration available and ignited is also critical. WTC had a lot larger area ignited a lot faster with more fuel. I'm pretty sure the square-cube law indicates the difference would be exponential, but I'm open to correction from Lefy or Tri or anyone else with relevant knowledge.

Answer the question Edx asked.

Do you maintain that the only threat to someone when a building collapses is if they are actually inside it?

 

[triforcharity]

Who cares? Stack enough couches in a pile and torch them, and you will make a fire hot enough to cause the steel trusses of a roof to collapse. I should expect the same heat source to also cause a reaaaaaaly long free-span truss supporting several tons of concrete to collapse. You really need to learn some of the basics of fire science.

It's ironic that he chose sofas as his experiment.

In Charleston SC. this already occurred, and it killed a bunch of firefighters when the steel roof FAILED!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charleston_Sofa_Super_Store_fire

Watch Kreel's head explode in 3.....2......

 

[Justin39640]

Okay then. How about if you stack up 10 sofas, add some wooden and plastic chairs, a couple desks, and you pour 100 gallons of kerosene on the pile and ignite it. What would be the maximum temperature you could achieve?

You do know that heat and temperature are different things, right?

 

[ozeco41]

You do know that heat and temperature are different things, right?

One common characteristic of these truthers. Lack of grasp of basics.

How many times have we seen "free fall speed"?

 

[KreeL]

Just once. When WTC7 was imploded.

 

[ozeco41]

Just once. When WTC7 was imploded.

Thanks for proving that you don't know what you are talking about.