OKC Bombing Coverup?

[Rouser2]

Originally posted by Regnad Kcin [/i]

>>Yet as I demonstrated, he certainly seems to have answered quite clearly (in regard to the moon landing, anyway). Twice.

>>I've asked you at least a couple of times in this thread to provide a quote to back up your contention:You haven't responded to my request, so I'm asking again.

You'll get an answer from CS when all hell freezes over. His allegations are his own invention. The whole purpose of mentally challenged types like CS is to disrupt rational discussion on a topic with off-topic lunacy.


-- Rouser

 

[NightG1]

The evidence of a wider conspiracy including foreknowledge by government agencies is legion. This report of ABC 20/20/s witness is just one indication that the ATF agents were warned, in advance. Wow, yourself.

Were is the transript of this interview? What is the name of this witness? Afraid of the boogyman? Wow again.

A low level secretary is not an ATF agent nor a "senior administrator. Nor would your un-sourced allegation refute the fact that no ATF agents were on the offical death lists.

From the Oklahoma City Bombing Grand Jury Report:

We are convinced that ATF employees Luke Franey, Valerie Rowden, Vernon Buster, James Staggs and Alex McCauley were in the building when it was destroyed. There was no credible evidence presented to us that leads us to believe the ATF had prior warning of the bombing.

Again Rouser, check your facts.

Physical evidence? Not from what was quickly buried by the Feds. But plenty of other evidence in the form of witnesses as well as published reports of FBI lab tampering of what evidence was retained.

Links please. And please don't resort to the "there was evidence until the Febs burned it" excuse. This is getting tiresome.

It proves that the previous statement made by some deaf, dumb and blind sleepwalker on this board, that only those with a "vested" interest believe there were more people involved, is patently false.

One thing that is persistently clear is that you have no interest is looking into the Murrah Fereral Build bombing with anything remotely approaching an objective search for what actually happened. You have made up your mind that the US government did something bad again and for reasons you have not made clear and that you will only accept evidence that fits your preconception. People have been asking you for some, any proof of the things you are saying and you repeatedly respond with either insults or the same tired re-post of quotes that are irrelevent. I never said I thought that McVeigh acted alone. All I asked was what difference does it make in proving a larger conspiracy especially one involving the United States government. Also, I never said only those with a vested interest believe there is a conspiracy. I only said that your two sources have a vested interest in this conspiracy staying in the news because it promotes their own involvement and/or books thay are publishing.

Perhaps the most ignorant statement of all. The only people who go to jail are those who are discovered and prosecuted, then found guilty by a judge or jury. All others remain at large, including a fella by the name of Osama bin Laden. But by your logic, since he is not in jail, he's no cirminal either, eh???? By the way, just what government school did you attend?

Strawman...again. Well OBL has not had his day in court has he? Not only that but he has already admitted to doing the deed. Got any tapes of mysterious deep throat agents confessing to calling those pagers? Anything else proving your conspiracy except people who are afraid to talk or evidence that has now been mysteriously destroyed with no proof it ever existed in the first place? Again Rouser, read the frigging Grand Jury Report.

 

[Bottle or the Gun]

Evidence that never existed? Witnesses intimdated? Like Watergate?

I think it naive not to believe that a multi-billion dollar machine full of greedy petty human beings won't for a minute hesitate to allow others to die to further their own ends, but I hope OKC wasn't a case of such a policy.

Like 911, I don't think there was a conspiracy to let it happen, just a lot of un-related or even obvious in hind-sight stuff that came to light afterwards that Monday-Morning QB's can point to.

I don' t think you can look at things like this as if if they are a conspiracy, you have to think of it more like a policy, that when applied has certain effects. For example: Raise interest rates, poor people get hurt. Red-line business insurance availibility for certain geographical areas and urban areas suffer more blight. Get involved in mid-east politics and German discos get bombed. Not a conspiracy, it is just what happens.

 

[Rouser2]

Originally posted by NightG1 [/i]


>>Originally posted by Rouser2

The evidence of a wider conspiracy including foreknowledge by government agencies is legion. This report of ABC 20/20/s witness is just one indication that the ATF agents were warned, in advance. Wow, yourself.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>Were is the transript of this interview?

Why I have it right in my hands. Want a copy? What's it to you? and just what difference would it make? You're just as close-minded as you accuse others of being close-minded.

>> What is the name of this witness? Afraid of the boogyman? Wow again.

It' been awhile since I've gotten back into this topic. But the mystery "deep throat" witness has long since been identified. It just slipped my mind -- Bruce Shaw, and his witness corroborated by his wife. Wow, yourself.

-- Rouser

 

[Rouser2]

Originally posted by NightG1 [/i]


>>From the Oklahoma City Bombing Grand Jury Report:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We are convinced that ATF employees Luke Franey, Valerie Rowden, Vernon Buster, James Staggs and Alex McCauley were in the building when it was destroyed. There was no credible evidence presented to us that leads us to believe the ATF had prior warning of the bombing.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>Again Rouser, check your facts.


Grand jury reports are not facts, bub. What you have here a simple statement unsupported by any facts. The Grand Jury simply took the word of the individuals involved, without a shred of evidence. Luke Franey's claim, for example, has been disputed by other witnesses. Fact is. the bomb(s) tore through the 9th floor ATF offices, but no ATF appeared on the death list. Check your facts.

-- Rouser

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Were is the transript of this interview? What is the name of this witness? Afraid of the boogyman? Wow again.

You'll notice that I asked Rouser to name JUST ONE of the people involved in this evil coverup. Just as I did for the JFK cover up. And the moon landing hoax. He keeps pushing all three conspiracies, and yet won't name ANY of the people involved so that we can make some arrests. I guess all these conspiracies come to him while he sits in his double wide, but somehow no names are ever attached. It's amazing how that works.

 

[Rouser2]

Originally posted by NightG1 [/i]

>>Anything else proving your conspiracy except people who are afraid to talk or evidence that has now been mysteriously destroyed with no proof it ever existed in the first place? Again Rouser, read the frigging Grand Jury Report.


Oh, I've got the "frigging" Grand Jury Report, alright. And it's pretty "friggin'. No need to go into factors of intimidation, the lack of a special counsel, and a Grand Jury judge who stated that the guy who was responbile for the Citizens Grand Jury paneling, State Rep. Charles Key should be himself indicted. No need to go there. Any person familiar with grand juries knows very well that it is controled by the prosecutors. And any 'ham sandwich" can be indicted. That being true, any criminal can be saved as well. But if you put all of your allegience and trust in Grand Juries then try to swallow this: The original Federal Grand Jury that indicted McVeigh, Nichols and Fortier also indicted "Persons Unknown"! Deal with it Sherlock.

-- Rouser

 

[Rouser2]

Originally posted by Bottle or the Gun [/i]

>>I think it naive not to believe that a multi-billion dollar machine full of greedy petty human beings won't for a minute hesitate to allow others to die to further their own ends, but I hope OKC wasn't a case of such a policy.

>>Like 911, I don't think there was a conspiracy to let it happen, just a lot of un-related or even obvious in hind-sight stuff that came to light afterwards that Monday-Morning QB's can point to.

As to OKC, there are other possiblities -- the most credible being a sting operation gone awry. Thus, the bombing could have occurred through bureaucratic bungling -- a failure to stop it when they could have stopped it. The conspircy part occurs in the cover-up. Plenty of motivation to cover-up a screw-up of that magnitude. Still, there is no excuse for agent provocateurs sent to encourage the mentally unstable to stop talking, and to start to take "action".

-- Rouser

 

[Rouser2]

Originally posted by NightG1]


>>quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Physical evidence? Not from what was quickly buried by the Feds. But plenty of other evidence in the form of witnesses as well as published reports of FBI lab tampering of what evidence was retained.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


>>Links please. And please don't resort to the "there was evidence until the Febs burned it" excuse. This is getting tiresome.


Links??? I'm "linking" all night long. You guys never link. Want a "link" to FBI evidence falsification? Got that one too.


March 22, 1997
Web posted at: 9:28 a.m. EDT
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The Justice Department inspector general's office has determined that the FBI crime laboratory working on the Oklahoma City bombing case made "scientifically unsound" conclusions that were "biased in favor of the prosecution," The Los Angeles Times reported Saturday.

http://www.cnn.com/US/9703/22/okc.fbi.report/


And the beat goes on.


-- Rouser

 

[Rouser2]

Originally posted by NightG1 [/i]


>>Well OBL has not had his day in court has he?

No. And by your logic that means he's innocent as the pure driven snow.

>>Not only that but he has already admitted to doing the deed.

He's not in jail; thus, by your logic his admission is a lie.

>>Got any tapes of mysterious deep throat agents confessing to calling those pagers? Anything else proving your conspiracy except people who are afraid to talk or evidence that has now been mysteriously destroyed with no proof it ever existed in the first place? Again Rouser, read the frigging Grand Jury Report.


Which one? The first one indicted "Persons Unknown". The second one admitted in its dicta, that as to other persons involved, it really didn't know. But McVeigh's lawyer, Stephen Jones knows. He says McVeigh told him. The destroyed evidence is all that which was buried; the altered, forged evidence is right there in the Inspector General's report as previously cited. "friggin' Grand Jury Reports" to the contrary, notwithstanding.

-- Rouser

 

[Mr Manifesto]

 

[neofight]

originally posted by shanek

Guys, this is hardly woo-woo stuff. This is serious.

I agree, shanek. And Rouser is correct that "others unknown" were indicted along with McVeigh and Nichols in the Oklahoma City bombing.

The idea that McVeigh and Nichols were not alone in the planning of this atrocity is nothing new. In fact, there is a very compelling and comprehensive case made by investigative reporter, Jayna Davis, who has been chasing down the truth about the bombing of the Murrah Federal Building for nine years now.

At the time of the bombing, Jayna Davis was a reporter at KFOR-TV, a NBC affiliate in Oklahoma City, and she was one of the first to broadcast the story. She's been hunting down leads ever since, and I think that anyone who takes a look at her evidence, would in all fairness have to agree that a complete investigation is very much warranted.

I know there are conspiracy theories out the wazoo, but a skeptic shouldn't dismiss something like this out-of-hand when the evidence is so easily available for anyone to examine......neo

 

[Dancing David]

Rousaer the Rapist is back!

And what no Invisible Pink Unicorn's were killed either, that means they were tipped off.

And you think 20/20 is a news source, what a hoot!

Rouser2 may not be a rapist but he supports rape and thinks that it is something that should ne encouraged.

 

[Dancing David]

It would appear that a google search for ATF and Oklahoma City bombing will show many a conspiracy theory out there!

What Rouser2 is not telling you is that that most of them link the bombing tip to a woman named Carol Howe and that they were reported to be threats from a right wing neo nazi organization based at a camp called Elohim City!


However the woo leaders of misinformation are right up there on this one here is what the John Birch Society has to say:

It was Iraquis what Done IT!

abundant evidence of Middle Eastern terrorist involvement in the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing and the possible connection of that event to the more recent 9-11 attacks. A recent example is Insight magazine. A December 3rd article by Kelly Patricia O’Meara reports that Timothy McVeigh’s convicted co-conspirator Terry Nichols "reportedly attended a meeting in the early 1990s on the predominantly Muslim island of Mindanao, a hotbed of fundamentalist activities, at which Ramzi Yousef, Abdul Hakim Murad and Wali Khan Amin Shah were present. The themes of the meeting were ‘bombing activities, providing firearms and ammunition, training in making and handling bombs.’ Yousef was the mastermind of the World Trade Center bombing in 1993; Murad and Shah were convicted in a 1996 conspiracy to blow up 12 U.S. jetliners."

You will note that the John Birch Society can name no source for the information! They just reference other Woo WOO materials and then quote Bill O'Riely the King of Liars. Well done John Birch, hang you heads in shame.


PS I checked on the Insight magazine, it is a sister publication to the washington Post and while there is an article for December 3, 2001 it does not mention any of that information. Nor does a search by the author or Terry McNichols, way to to go JBS!

 

[Rouser2]

Originally posted by Dancing David [/i]

>>Rousaer the Rapist is back!
And what no Invisible Pink Unicorn's were killed either, that means they were tipped off.
And you think 20/20 is a news source, what a hoot!
Rouser2 may not be a rapist but he supports rape and thinks that it is something that should ne encouraged.<<

Alas, there no end to the pinheaded nitwittery of the know-nothing slanderer. We've already commended one to slither back into his crevice. I commend you to do the same. No, I do not rape, nor support rape, nor endorse moon-landing hoaxes, but I do believe that brain-dead nitwits who come on these boards for the purpose of disrupting rational discussion with off-the-wall slander should be drawn and quartered. I commend you to slither away back to your slime-filled sewer.


-- Rouser

 

[Rouser2]

Originally posted by Dancing David [/i]

>>What Rouser2 is not telling you is that that most of them link the bombing tip to a woman named Carol Howe and that they were reported to be threats from a right wing neo nazi organization based at a camp called Elohim City!

Wow! So how long did it take you to find that out? But you don't believe it, eh??

>>However the woo leaders of misinformation are right up there on this one here is what the John Birch Society has to say:

>>It was Iraquis what Done IT!

>>You will note that the John Birch Society can name no source for the information! They just reference other Woo WOO materials and then quote Bill O'Riely the King of Liars. Well done John Birch, hang you heads in shame.
PS I checked on the Insight magazine, it is a sister publication to the washington Post and while there is an article for December 3, 2001 it does not mention any of that information. Nor does a search by the author or Terry McNichols, way to to go JBS!

So ABC's 20/20 is strictly "woo-woo" along with "woo-woo" reporter Tom Jarriel as is Insight Mag., the Washington Post and Bill O'Reilly, the king of liars? Sorry Dancing Dude, you win that prize.

Somehow you failed to notice the New American reference to a book by Dr. Laurie Mylroie, "The War Against America: Saddam Hussein and The World Trade Center Attacks" and the endorsement by former CIA head James Woosley -- but anyone who threatens your naive perceptions of the world must surely belong to the "woo-woo" crowd, eh?


-- Rouser

 

[Dancing David]

What I noticed Rouser2 is that the Insight article is not available, so either it is from an issue that is not available or they are citing an incorrect source.

And I believe that it said that Woolsey wrote the introduction.

I would still like to see some sort of source material for the reference to McNichols and the Middle eastern connection.

And yes I do consider a single report by 20/20 to be specious and , just like Ann Coulter, I consider O'reiley to an opinion/editorial, I would like to see more than bombast and some source material.

self reference


They just reference other Woo WOO materials and then quote Bill O'Riely the King of Liars. Well done John Birch, hang you heads in shame.

You will note that my refererence is not to the Insight but to the other references mentioned, I find that it is not good history or journalism to just say "so and so says this to be true", it would be helpful, if I could read the actual Insight article and to actualy know what the sources are.

Perhaps a FOIA filling would be appropriate, I figure that if Reno made some huge cover up then Ashcroft would like to help.

I have no doubt that there was a coverup, of the fcat that Tim McVeigh was a right wing nut case.

 

[Rouser2]

Originally posted by Dancing David [/i]

>>What I noticed Rouser2 is that the Insight article is not available, so either it is from an issue that is not available or they are citing an incorrect source.
And I believe that it said that Woolsey wrote the introduction.

Yes, and stated to the effect that "In that piece and other articles since Black Tuesday, Woolsey has expressed his support for her thesis and stated his belief that Hussein was behind both the 1993 and the 2001 attacks on the World Trade Center Towers."

Now then, in your "mind", that means Mr. Woolsey also belongs in the "woo-woo" crowd of paranoid conspiracy nuts along with Tom Jarreil, 20/20, Insight Mag and its parent, Washington Post, eh? ???? Yes or no? Just trying to figure out how simple-minded your stereo-typing gets???

-- Rouser
>>I would still like to see some sort of source material for the reference to McNichols and the Middle eastern connection.

As long as you search under the name "McNichols," you won't find anything.

>>And yes I do consider a single report by 20/20 to be specious

A single report that you don't agree with, but cannot refute. Excellent reasoning.

>>and , just like Ann Coulter, I consider O'reiley to an opinion/editorial, I would like to see more than bombast and some source material.

An opinionated commentor hardly makes the "world's greatest liar". What government school did you say you attended?

>> You will note that my refererence is not to the Insight but to the other references mentioned,

No, you wrote "Insight". Then proceeded to conclude it wasn't there because you couldn't find it.

>> it would be helpful, if I could read the actual Insight article and to actualy know what the sources are.

Ever hear of libraries?

>>Perhaps a FOIA filling would be appropriate, I figure that if Reno made some huge cover up then Ashcroft would like to help.

Which persumes that Ashcroft has any clue at all, much less the motivation to expose a government cover-up of a slip-up that cost 168 lives.

>>I have no doubt that there was a coverup, of the fcat that Tim McVeigh was a right wing nut case.

What "wing" were a part of McVeigh's political convictions hardly has anything whatsoever to do with the untold facts concerning the OKC bombing.

-- Rouser

 

[neofight]

originally posted by Dancing David

And I believe that it said that Woolsey wrote the introduction.

James Woolsey has also fully endorced the work of both Jayna Davis AND Laurie Mylroie, as evidenced by this quote which Jayna Davis has posted at the top, right-hand side of her webpage at JaynaDavis.com......

"When the full stories of these two incidents (1993 WTC Center bombing and 1995 Oklahoma City bombing) are finally told, those who permitted the investigations to stop short will owe big explanations to these two brave women (Middle East expert Laurie Mylroie and journalist Jayna Davis). And the nation will owe them a debt of gratitude."
- Former CIA Director James Woolsey, "The Iraq Connection" , Wall Street Journal, September 5, 2002
wrote the introduction.

originally posted by Dancing David

I would still like to see some sort of source material for the reference to McNichols and the Middle eastern connection.

That's "McVeigh" and/or "Nichols", and some good background info on this case can be found in the two articles located at this URL:

http://jaynadavis.com/story.html

.....as well as in the other one mentioned above, viz: "The Iraq Connection", written by Micah Morrison, which can be found at:

http://jaynadavis.com/story090502-wsj1.html

.......neo

 

[Dancing David]

From the JBS news site:

abundant evidence of Middle Eastern terrorist involvement in the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing

I would assume that abundant means like a lot and that is not what they provide in the article.

BTW The Insight web site does list an article by the author for December 3, but just not the one cited by the JBS mouthpiece.

I called o'Reiley "King of the Liars", which he is followed by Ann Coulter.

I have no doubt that there will be more than i will ever know in my lifetime about the OKC bombing, and I will read up on J. Davis evidence.

However there also seems to be very strong evidence that the OKC bombing was linked to a right wing grou or groups. And that isn't reorted by the JBS web site. And yes I consider a lot of the reporting on 20/20 specious and unsuppoted, I fing that to be true of about 80% of the infotainment field.

On the other hand: what motive would McVeigh have for not telling the truth while he faced execution:
McVeigh's chronology from Frontline

I would think that he would have been telling about the Rashid connection for sure, just to get the heat off of the white supreme-ists.