Okay, this is a gun nut.

The Don said:
That's the way I read it....




Yup I read it as "Only in America" applying to the comments otherwise it would have been
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Yeah, that came out wrong; it was meant more as a comment on me misreading the intent. I'm not a member of imgur so I'm not able to see where the commenters are from.

Should have used a smiley. Sorry, Arth.
 
The Don said:
:confused:

You claimed that "guns left in toilet" incidents were common like car accidents. Now you're saying that they're not common like car accidents because fewer people use gins regularly. That's like saying unicorn riding accidents are common like car accidents but the reason why no-one ever has one is that there are no unicorns to ride.

Why not back up a touch and say that "although rare, guns left in toilet incidents are not unprecedented and generate less media coverage than guns left in toy store incidents".

PhantomWolf may of course disagree because that Google search seems to indicate that incidents are rare but do generate a fair amount of press coverage.
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the issue is how many of them get reported at all. in a police station or firing range does a gun left in the bathroom generate a media report?

I never said public bathroom.
 
ponderingturtle said:
the issue is how many of them get reported at all. in a police station or firing range does a gun left in the bathroom generate a media report?

I never said public bathroom.
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Provide some data about how often this happens and we can discuss it. You claimed that "guns abandoned in toilet" is

common like car accidents and such
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There are 5.5 million car accidents annually in the U.S., please feel free to demonstrate how "guns abandoned in toilet" is common like this using some actual data.
 
Gawdzilla said:
Police identify last known owner of loaded gun found in Target toy aisle



Article continues.

My suspicion is that he left the gun there so somebody would get hurt and the owner of the gun would get blamed. Based on a deep lack of faith in the goodness of human nature.
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A more reasonable explanation could be that the piece was being carried w/o a carry license and the carrier thought he may be confronted by an LEO (shoplifting?) and the carrier ditched the piece.

Over the years, I know of situations where LEO's and licensed carriers have left a piece behind while using a public bathroom (removing the belt/holster w/ the duty weapon or concealed carry piece in the holster takes a third hand, sop is to remove the piece from the holster and proceed) and aside from the public risk it's a real failure of competence on the part of the carrier.

I once pulled into the parking lot of a municipal range before opening hours, and there was another car in the lot w/o anyone present, with a handgun and ammo sitting in plain view on the trunk lid. I waited 20 minutes or so until the range opened, still no gun owner, and removed the piece from the trunk and turned it in to the range master. Gun owner showed up about a half hour later freaking out that their gun was gone. Range master calls a cease-fire, calls me over and he and I had a heart-to-heart with the absent minded shooter. He told us he was waiting for a friend and he was worried that his friend would miss the entrance to the range so he was standing out at the entrance waiting for his friend to flag him down. Since there was nobody standing at the entrance when I drove in, his story wasn't too credible, but he didn't seem any more confused than most people.

I wanted to know why he'd leave his piece unattended, and he said he didn't remember removing the firearm from his trunk...

Everyone might have an arguable right to possess a firearm, but that doesn't mean that they're qualified to do so safely and competently.
 
BStrong said:
A more reasonable explanation could be that the piece was being carried w/o a carry license and the carrier thought he may be confronted by an LEO (shoplifting?) and the carrier ditched the piece.

Over the years, I know of situations where LEO's and licensed carriers have left a piece behind while using a public bathroom (removing the belt/holster w/ the duty weapon or concealed carry piece in the holster takes a third hand, sop is to remove the piece from the holster and proceed) and aside from the public risk it's a real failure of competence on the part of the carrier.

I once pulled into the parking lot of a municipal range before opening hours, and there was another car in the lot w/o anyone present, with a handgun and ammo sitting in plain view on the trunk lid. I waited 20 minutes or so until the range opened, still no gun owner, and removed the piece from the trunk and turned it in to the range master. Gun owner showed up about a half hour later freaking out that their gun was gone. Range master calls a cease-fire, calls me over and he and I had a heart-to-heart with the absent minded shooter. He told us he was waiting for a friend and he was worried that his friend would miss the entrance to the range so he was standing out at the entrance waiting for his friend to flag him down. Since there was nobody standing at the entrance when I drove in, his story wasn't too credible, but he didn't seem any more confused than most people.

I wanted to know why he'd leave his piece unattended, and he said he didn't remember removing the firearm from his trunk...

Everyone might have an arguable right to possess a firearm, but that doesn't mean that they're qualified to do so safely and competently.
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And so where are the statistics on that? The problem is that incidents like the one you relate do not generate evidence to get statistics from.
 
The Don said:
Provide some data about how often this happens and we can discuss it. You claimed that "guns abandoned in toilet" is



There are 5.5 million car accidents annually in the U.S., please feel free to demonstrate how "guns abandoned in toilet" is common like this using some actual data.
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where should that data come from when most such incidents go unreported?
 
ponderingturtle said:
where should that data come from when most such incidents go unreported?
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You made the claim with reference to guns being left in toilets that:

It is common like car accidents and such.
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I'm just asking for some evidence to back up this claim. So far you've claimed that it must be so but that the incidents go unreported - so how do you know how common it is ?
 
The Don said:
You made the claim with reference to guns being left in toilets that:



I'm just asking for some evidence to back up this claim. So far you've claimed that it must be so but that the incidents go unreported - so how do you know how common it is ?
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anecdotes like the one in this thread. how many gun enthusiasts haven't seen similar events of absentmindedly forgetting a gun somewhere. the car analogy is even more apt to the incident than a bathroom.
 
ponderingturtle said:
anecdotes like the one in this thread. how many gun enthusiasts haven't seen similar events of absentmindedly forgetting a gun somewhere. the car analogy is even more apt to the incident than a bathroom.
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Ehhrm. The only place I've seen someone absentmindedly forget a gun is at the range, but since everyone there already has access to one its not even remotely the same as leaving one in the toy isle.
 
ponderingturtle said:
anecdotes like the one in this thread. how many gun enthusiasts haven't seen similar events of absentmindedly forgetting a gun somewhere. the car analogy is even more apt to the incident than a bathroom.
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Really ?

I don't drive so much these days (less than 5,000 miles a year) and yet I see several accidents every year ranging from tiny parking dings through to major high speed accidents. To me "common like car accidents and such" is therefore something that a person can expect to encounter annually or even several times a year. By contrast, guns left in a bathroom seem to be an exceptional circumstance, something that someone may never encounter or perhaps encounter once or twice in their life.
 
lobosrul said:
Ehhrm. The only place I've seen someone absentmindedly forget a gun is at the range, but since everyone there already has access to one its not even remotely the same as leaving one in the toy isle.
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And how many other places are you around a number of armed individuals?
 
ponderingturtle said:
And how many other places are you around a number of armed individuals?
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In my case every time I'm in the presence of my sister in law, her husband and his family. All have concealed carry, all keep their weapons to hand even when relaxing at home. Personally I think they are crazy but I guess they interpret a very real threat in their upscale suburban Denver community that I don't see.
 
BStrong said:
Everyone might have an arguable right to possess a firearm, but that doesn't mean that they're qualified to do so safely and competently.
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I'll just leave this right here.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ion-girls-father-shoots-one-dead-HIS-gun.html

ponderingturtle said:
And how many other places are you around a number of armed individuals?
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My hunt club, Bojangles, Wal-mart, Little League games, movie theaters, swimming pools, the library, ... Heck, this is America. We only leave our guns in the car when we go to parent-teacher conferences.
:D
 
The Don said:
In my case every time I'm in the presence of my sister in law, her husband and his family. All have concealed carry, all keep their weapons to hand even when relaxing at home. Personally I think they are crazy but I guess they interpret a very real threat in their upscale suburban Denver community that I don't see.
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And they only do this in your prescence?
 
a_unique_person said:
And they only do this in your prescence?
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The question was:

And how many other places are you around a number of armed individuals?
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so a response of

In my case every time I'm in the presence of my sister in law, her husband and his family
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Makes sense

Whether or not they are armed when I'm not with them will not affect my response to the question. :p
 
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