Okay, convince me Jesus existed.

[Resume]

If you have a couple of weeks you can read this 500 page thread.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124603

Why would anyone take that kind of time to discover you haven't a clue as to what the word evidence means?

 

[Oystein]

If you have a couple of weeks you can read this 500 page thread.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124603

I read the OP and first couple of pages and other random short passages from that thread. Whenever your nickname stood to the left of a post, it almost always contained one or more logical fallacies. Never any evidence. Your track record there, and in your other threads, is incredibly bad.

 

[Akhenaten]

If you have a couple of weeks you can read this 500 page thread.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124603

Or for those in a hurry, there's this summary of all the evidence you presented:












.

 

[Oystein]

...
In case you did not know, there were lots of rabbis at the time of Christ who had said very similar ethical teachings.
...

Can you prove trhat any one of them actually existed?

 

[Akhenaten]

I read the OP and first couple of pages and other random short passages from that thread. Whenever your nickname stood to the left of a post, it almost always contained one or more logical fallacies. Never any evidence. Your track record there, and in your other threads, is incredibly bad.

I've known people who aren't even members of this forum to refer to that thread as a classic example of utter failure and yet DOC keeps linking to it as his greatest triumph.

Can you imagine what an argument that he admits to losing would look like?

 

[DC]

If you have a couple of weeks you can read this 500 page thread.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124603

huh the wrong link? this totaly debunks your claim.

 

[abaddon]

If you have a couple of weeks you can read this 500 page thread.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124603

I saw this and thought "No, no, please not the evidence thread which contains exactly 0 evidence".

I note DOC is still labouring under the delusion that quantity=quality, as if a 500 page thread somehow validates his contention by dint of sheer volume.

Where does he get that notion?

 

[RandFan]

Why are you and I spending any time at all out of our short lives having this discussion?

If you don't like my answers perhaps you shouldn't ask the questions. I like philosophical discussion. I once believed in god and even served a mission so I know what it's like to be on your side.

 

[RandFan]

What does the existence or non existence of some rabbi have to do with anything you just said?

I'm trying to get you to think. Your logic is fallacious. If the logic you use won't work for one it won't for the other either. Special pleading won't save it as that is also a fallacy.

In case you did not know, there were lots of rabbis at the time of Christ who had said very similar ethical teachings.

Which out to be a giant red flag for you. To make your rabbis special you have to use special pleading.

Jesus had a following because he was younger then those guys, I guess, and probably had charisma. Elvis did not write any original material as well. But that did not stop people from calling him "king".

I've never heard that argument. It made me chuckle. Argument from age. It's novel I'll grant you that.

FACTS:

• We don't know Christ existed.
• If he existed we don't know if anything said about him is true.

I do not see any connection between a historic Jesus and Mormonism or Christianity. The fact that you do, tells me that you are not thinking clearly or logically.

Because you don't want to. Because you are special pleading.

i do suspect that since Mormonism was a let-down to you, you feel a need to strike out against Christianity and saying that Jesus Christ never lived is part of that. Am I right?

Not even close. I care about what is true and I care about honesty and I care about logic. Ad hominem.

Why do you cling to arguments that you think are compelling for your belief but reject the same arguments for other beliefs?

If I am right, you are like some Russian programmers I know who doubt that the moon missions were real. It is because what that means. The truth is what you make it, for these people and you.

I spent years in the JREF CT forum battling nonsense like that. I don't subscribe to CT for the same reason I don't believe in Christ. Evidence and logic. Your argument is ad hominem.

I have to wonder why this discussion is worth any time to you at all.

I have to wonder why you think it's worth your time but not mine. You are attacking me (ad hominem). This is fallacious. Attack my arguments not me.

The best reason I can see is that you want to have mainstream Christianity to be as lacking of legitimacy as Mormonism.

Christianity has no "legitimacy"? Argument ad populum. That a lot of people believe something doesn't make it true.

What better way to show that Christianity is just as much a fraud as Mormonism than to show that Jesus Christ never existed?

It's only one of many. But your rhetorical question is fallacious.

I think if you were to be honest with yourself, you would admit I have a point here.

If you were honest with yourself you would see that my point is as legitimate as yours and if you reject mine and are consistent and honest you would have to reject yours.

Your entire post was constructed of fallacy.

 

[Dayan81]

What does the existence or non existence of some rabbi have to do with anything you just said?

In case you did not know, there were lots of rabbis at the time of Christ who had said very similar ethical teachings. Jesus had a following because he was younger then those guys, I guess, and probably had charisma. Elvis did not write any original material as well. But that did not stop people from calling him "king"...

Are you being facetious?

 

[dafydd]

Are you being facetious?

As always.

 

[Oystein]

I've known people who aren't even members of this forum to refer to that thread as a classic example of utter failure and yet DOC keeps linking to it as his greatest triumph.

Can you imagine what an argument that he admits to losing would look like?

Now I am depressed

 

[Dayan81]

Jesus son of Joseph, the Judeaean preacher may have existed.

But it is highly unlikely that he actually called himself the Son of God and the Messiah, unless he was mentally ill.

 

[Ethnikos]

Jesus son of Joseph, the Judeaean preacher may have existed.
But it is highly unlikely that he actually called himself the Son of God and the Messiah, unless he was mentally ill.

And this is based on . . what?

 

[tsig]

What does the existence or non existence of some rabbi have to do with anything you just said?

In case you did not know, there were lots of rabbis at the time of Christ who had said very similar ethical teachings. Jesus had a following because he was younger then those guys, I guess, and probably had charisma. Elvis did not write any original material as well. But that did not stop people from calling him "king".

I do not see any connection between a historic Jesus and Mormonism or Christianity. The fact that you do, tells me that you are not thinking clearly or logically.

i do suspect that since Mormonism was a let-down to you, you feel a need to strike out against Christianity and saying that Jesus Christ never lived is part of that. Am I right?

If I am right, you are like some Russian programmers I know who doubt that the moon missions were real. It is because what that means. The truth is what you make it, for these people and you.

I have to wonder why this discussion is worth any time to you at all. The best reason I can see is that you want to have mainstream Christianity to be as lacking of legitimacy as Mormonism. What better way to show that Christianity is just as much a fraud as Mormonism than to show that Jesus Christ never existed?

I think if you were to be honest with yourself, you would admit I have a point here.

Why do you think Mormonism lacks legitimacy?

 

[tsig]

I've known people who aren't even members of this forum to refer to that thread as a classic example of utter failure and yet DOC keeps linking to it as his greatest triumph.

Can you imagine what an argument that he admits to losing would look like?

He's in a perilous position because if he loses even one argument his faith is in vain.

 

[Dayan81]

And this is based on . . what?

Knowledge of Judaism. Its a very rare occurance for a Jew to proclaim himself the Messiah. And even those that have have never claimed to also have been the Son of God.

You see, we Jews do not believe that God can have children. Not even Muslims accept that Jesus was the God's son, for the exact same reason. Had Jesus not been proclaimed God's son, Jews may have been much more likely to accept him.

 

[RandFan]

Why do you think Mormonism lacks legitimacy?

Yep.

 

[RandFan]

And this is based on . . what?

Knowledge of Judaism. Its a very rare occurance for a Jew to proclaim himself the Messiah. And even those that have have never claimed to also have been the Son of God.

You see, we Jews do not believe that God can have children. Not even Muslims accept that Jesus was the God's son, for the exact same reason. Had Jesus not been proclaimed God's son, Jews may have been much more likely to accept him.

I've heard this claim before from various rabbis.

When I was still a believer I listened to a Rabbi on a local California radio station, KFI640. He blew me away. I didn't understand just how distorted the Christian view of Judaism was. Bear in mind that I attended the Mission Training Center at BYU and took a course on Jewish culture. I did because I was going to Orange County California and would likely counter people of Jewish faith. I did. But my view was so warped because Christianity views Judaism through a history long separated from its roots. There is a lot of ignorance about what was particularly important to Jews at the time of Christ.

It would be akin to claiming that Jesus wasn't circumcised, wore robes woven of cotton and wool, ate shell fish and kept the Sabbath for a few hours on Sunday.

 

[bikerdruid]

It would be akin to claiming that Jesus wasn't circumcised, wore robes woven of cotton and wool, ate shell fish and kept the Sabbath for a few hours on Sunday.

or that jesus was queer..... (he hung out with 12 guys, and never married)
or that jesus was a witch..... (turning water to wine...wow...now that's magick!)