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Official - Michael Jackson was scum
- Thread starter cullennz
- Start date
Really?
Asked what he gets out of a relationship with a young boy, he explains: 'I love, I feel, I think what they get from me I get from them. I've said it many times, my greatest inspiration comes from kids. Every song I write, every dance I do, all the poetry I write, is all inspired from the level of innocence.
'Whenever kids come here they never want to stay in the guest rooms. They say, "Can I stay with you tonight?", so I go, "If it's OK with your parents then yes you can".'
Asked if he can understand others' concerns, Jackson, looking increasingly nervous, says: 'Why should that be worrying? What's the criminal? Who's Jack the Ripper in the room?'
He denies sleeping in the same bed as Gavin but adds: 'I have slept in a bed with many children.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...ittle-boys-Michael-Jackson.html#ixzz4DFocJaXr
Foolmewunz
Grammar Resistance Leader, TLA Dictator
I see. Deep, man. Deep.
Foolmewunz
Grammar Resistance Leader, TLA Dictator
Headline: Why I sleep with boys.
Comment: I have slept in a bed with many children.
Now all we need to define is "sleep with", wink wink nudge nudge get my meaning.
ETA: I'm not asleep at the wheel. I realize that the quote from the Daily Mail is actually cherry-picked, but I also realize that you didn't do it yourself, intentionally. In case you're interested, that's in the transcript, also. The Gavin/Michael segment was shown in the prosecutions opening statement. Pretty amazing those million dollar lawyers didn't stop him from showing that, eh?
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So what do we have? A guy who admits to sleeping with kids, who has pictures of naked children, who has been accused by multiple kids of molestation, who is obsessed with children, and who has an alarm in his bedroom.
Maybe he's a paranoid troubled artist who never grew up and his accusers were all liars. I don't buy it. I think it's likely he's a pedophile. You can call me me prejudiced (although the word that fits best is suspicious), and I'll call you naive, and at the end of the day we'll all agree we wouldn't let our kids stay at his Neverland Ranch.
We done here?
Maybe he's a paranoid troubled artist who never grew up and his accusers were all liars. I don't buy it. I think it's likely he's a pedophile. You can call me me prejudiced (although the word that fits best is suspicious), and I'll call you naive, and at the end of the day we'll all agree we wouldn't let our kids stay at his Neverland Ranch.
We done here?
Right. We're now in "what is the meaning of "is"" territory. If that's your defense of MJ sleeping with kids (what does "sleep with" mean. Derp.), it's pathetic.
Foolmewunz
Grammar Resistance Leader, TLA Dictator
We did not agree about Neverland Ranch. Read my posts on that topic again.
And at least try to learn some English. You're a teacher? "Prejudice" does not mean bigotry or racism. It can simply mean, as it was used in this thread, that one has pre-judged a situation/incident without hearing out the evidence.
And it doesn't apply because my judgement was based on the evidence of MJ admitting to Martin Bashir that he's "slept with many children".
Foolmewunz
Grammar Resistance Leader, TLA Dictator
Was it? Or did you just dig that up? Sorry, but I believe it's the latter.
Your entire premise seems to be based on equivocation.
I've slept with many men. I'm not sexually attracted to men. Do you think these two statements are mutually exclusive?
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
I can think of many possibilities here, and variations. One of them is that MJ was not a child molester, but had an inclination toward it, and that being aware of the boundaries, he skated very close to the edge. People who know, or even think they know, when a line is crossed, will occasionally get disturbingly close to it.
Personal feelings aside, we cannot legally judge people for what they feel, wish or dream. We can only judge them for what they do. If Jackson was careful never to cross that line, then even if we consider him the sort of person we would not be comfortable with, we cannot say that because of that he might as well have gone ahead and done the things he carefully avoided doing.
In the demon-plagued world of hellfire preachers, we're all filthy sinners just for being who we are, but I think real morality can show in not doing what you wish you could.
Personal feelings aside, we cannot legally judge people for what they feel, wish or dream. We can only judge them for what they do. If Jackson was careful never to cross that line, then even if we consider him the sort of person we would not be comfortable with, we cannot say that because of that he might as well have gone ahead and done the things he carefully avoided doing.
In the demon-plagued world of hellfire preachers, we're all filthy sinners just for being who we are, but I think real morality can show in not doing what you wish you could.
Foolmewunz
Grammar Resistance Leader, TLA Dictator
I have lusted in my heart.
Mumbles
Philosopher
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2008
- Messages
- 8,726
"Homo" was a kind term compared to what I remember a lot of people were saying. But yeah, it was only when the evidence came out that I said "Oh, this sounds like they really went after him with no regard for evidence". I'm pretty sure that it was when R Kelly's trial was going on, but I could be mistaken on that one.
HenryLee
Muse
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2014
- Messages
- 753
"Billie Jean is not my lover
She's just a girl who claims that I am the one
But the kid is not my son
She says I am the one, but the kid is not my son"
I assure you even in 1982 nobody seriously thought Jackson had a child out of wedlock, y'know, with a woman. Sure he was hanging out with Brooke Shields but that always seemed manufactured.
Dig what up? A TV special that was watched by 50 million people? Boy, that took a lot of google-fu.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyPbeFDS-y0
at 1:10
No cherry picking. He even describes sleeping between McCauley Culkin and his brother and waking up at dawn. And then says the world needs more of it!
Oddly my wife and I never did anything particularly sexual any of the many thousands of times we slept together- it was when we were awake. And I often slept with my own children when they were babies and they woke up in the middle of the night crying- without any sexual component to it asleep or awake. In fact I had cats that slept with all of us during that time (their choice) without that degenerating into any wild trans-species orgy either. I even slept with my brother in the same bed when we where both under 8 (small apartment)
I bother to bring this point up (even knowing that your post was a response to a request for documentation from another member) only because "sleeping together" is a common slang expression for sexual activity, but literally means the opposite. Is literally "sleeping" with other people's children a good idea? No, not in almost any case I can imagine because of the concerns such an event would raise in our current society (excluding rare situations such as 3 families trying to survive an ice storm in a little tent). But is it inherently evil or proof of a sexual attraction? Again no. And given that most people do not have a sexual attraction to children, I can even see an argument that it could be kind of protective and reassuring to the children if it was indeed absolutely innocent.
Again, I am arguing that MJ may have been weird in many ways, but the "scum" accusation is based on innuendo and tabloid journalism, and fell apart in a court of law when the actual facts were presented.
Years before the video there was the big payout to a kid who accused him of molestation. I'm always a little suspicious when lots of money is thrown at an accuser, especially when the person hotly denies the accusations. I'm innocent, innocent, that's nothing but a pack of lies, here's millions of dollars. After watching Bashir's interview I remember my friends and I talking about it (it was a big deal when it aired) and the consensus was he was probably a pedophile. I don't know if he ever molested anyone.
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
And years later, after he got legally emancipated from his parents, that kid recanted the whole thing and said it was all lies. His parents pushed him into lying about molestation in order to cop a payout.
There were also more accusations, and the recent articles about what he had in his house.
You're not going to change my mind, and I probably won't change yours, but I fail to see how my position is "prejudiced". I've looked at the evidence (obsession with children, multiple accusations of molestation, admission of sleeping with children, books with pictures of sexually stylized kids, doorbell alarm in bedroom) and come to a different conclusion than you. I don't understand how, knowing what we know now, you don't think MJ was probably a pedophile. I think the evidence is overwhelming.
If MJ had just been a teacher, would you have tolerated having your kid in his class?
I am aware of a lot of payouts from companies and individuals who were not guilty of anything but just felt that it would be cheaper, and or less of a public relations problem, to just pay out the money than to go through a trial. My own State and university administrations have often settled out of court suits that appear to have no real basis, but which would have been much more expensive to defend and suffer the negative publicity. I have no facts in terms of the actual motivation behind the MJ payouts, but then neither does anyone else on this thread.
As to if he was a pedophile- as I mentioned before, it is impossible to get into someone's head to find out, and in many ways it doesn't matter to me. It is what someone actually does that is of crucial importance as I see it. My next door neighbor may go to bed each night fantasizing about murdering and eating me- how could I know? But for many decades he has been a quite, polite, and helpful neighbor in terms of what he actually does in real life. Therefore I don't really care what dark thoughts might, or might not, be in his mind.
Probably most people have at least some evil thoughts, but do not give into them in terms of their actual deeds. I think that this ability to control one's actual deeds is the core of civilization given that it is impossible to always control one's emotions and thoughts. Who I find are evil are the opposite- those who perform dark deeds in real life but self-justify them by thinking up rationalizations in their heads. This has been a basis for almost all religious wars- "Well, I feel bad about killing other people but my religion tells me God needs me to do so for the greater good so I am not doing anything evil... not really." I am certain that many child molesters have some perverse way of convincing themselves in their heads that they are not "truly" pedophiles- "Well, that 10 year old looks older than their actual age, almost an adult in fact,and I am only trying to be their friend and help them learn about life" or some such crap.
There is enough evil in the world to worry about based only on actual deeds- I think it is a distraction to expand this still further by including thought crimes.
Again- I don't know what MJ actually did, but to me there is not enough proof to accuse him of something as horrible as child molestation. As to the sexual preferences in his mind- I can never know, so it appears irrelevant to me (not to mention he being dead). Probably the only reason I am posting in this thread is that I dislike the tendency of societies to accuse the people who do not fit in of terrible crimes simply because they are odd or strange. Some odd and strange people do commit crimes. Most do not, yet they certainly have been (and continue to be) the "usual suspects" in witch hunts of all kinds.
And I am writing this even though MJ turned me into a newt.