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Official - Michael Jackson was scum

I think Bill Cosby is guilty as.

Probably the same though.

Making it up

(shrug) I dunno. I don't follow very many of these cases. To be honest, I can only handle so much of the graphic and disturbing images. Whether I believe the person to be guilty or innocent doesn't ultimately matter much, either way I can walk away feeling like I need a shower and a stiff drink.
 
The kids.

Apparently they are all liars. While MJ can't be

'All'? There were 2 kids. There were 3 accusations, but 1 of them chose to flee the country to avoid testifying against Michael Jackson.

Of those 2 kids, one had his (or rather his parents had their) day in court, and the jury unanimously found against them, and not over a technicality. The third kid was actually a part of MJ's defence team, but about a decade later wanted to sue for molestation which the courts did not uphold. Make of that what you will.

During the court cases there were numerous other names mentioned - of kids who were apparently molested by Jackson, as witnessed by others, but each of these kids came on as defence witnesses to categorically deny any instances of impropriety. Altogether about 40 kids who hung out with MJ in his house, in his room, have spoken up in his defence.

Looking at the preponderance of evidence and deciding that the testimony of 2 kids don't match up is the correct thing to do. Asking otherwise is just a play on emotions.

EDIT: 48 women have come out with accusations against Bill Cosby. So not really the same thing at all.
 
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One of the frustrating paradoxes in all this is the way that any unusual measure can be read, depending on what you have concluded beforehand.

If, for example, you presume Jackson was a molester, then the alarm system is rather damning. It's just the kind of thing one would have installed to prevent being caught red handed.

But if you presume he was not a molester, and especially if you consider him an odd person with huge amounts of money, and a bunch of issues, there are other valid reasons why such a thing might have been installed.


I'm reminded of a long ago incident I read about, in which a person got himself committed to a mental institution to see how people were treated there. One of the things mentioned was the way in which presumption colored every observation made. So, for example, when he wrote in his notebook, his record showed that he had been "exhibiting note-taking behavior." It's true, and yet it's damning when put that way. You get the same thing when police arrest someone: protestations of innocence and surprise are automatically registered as aggression. And, of course, when the arrest is justified, the police are likely right.

Evidence is always clearer in hindsight, but you can get badly trapped if you go at it backwards.
 
One of the frustrating paradoxes in all this is the way that any unusual measure can be read, depending on what you have concluded beforehand.

Yes; absolutely -or depending on how your perception of those measures changes over time.

All of this happened years ago. Since the acquittal, the media have never really stopped finding ways to continue to cash in on the events, so it's harder and harder to dig through the landslide looking for a thread to follow, let alone trying to find a grain of real truth. Add in the fact people change -children grow up, and their memory of events changes.

I'm always a little suspicious of claims made 20 years after an event. That doesn't mean I instantly dismiss 'em, or think the person is lying. But I do like to be able to evaluate it a bit more carefully, and am never very surprised when the allegations never go past a single tabloid spread or a few scattered reports.

One more point: several people have made comments about MJ being "creepy" and "weird". But I do not recall him ever being seen in that light until AFTER the news blew up with inflammatory articles, and he was given the nickname "Wacko Jacko". I think, if the entire world thought those things about me, it would make me weird. I wonder how many of us could live with that kind of public opinion about ourselves and NOT let the pressure start deforming our lives and our self images?
 
One aspect that weakened his testimony was that Star, the only witness to the alleged molestation, claimed he twice walked in on Jackson molesting Gavin and was completely unnoticed, even while tripping the alarm system in the hallway leading to Jackson's bedroom. An alarm or bell would sound whenever anyone approached, and Star claimed that on both occasions the alarm went off and Jackson didn't hear it. Neither did he hear nor see the boy come and go.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_of_Michael_Jackson

The alarm system sucks apparently. Is there any corroboration for its existence that is not from an accuser?
 
One more point: several people have made comments about MJ being "creepy" and "weird". But I do not recall him ever being seen in that light until AFTER the news blew up with inflammatory articles, and he was given the nickname "Wacko Jacko".

I remember hearing that pretty clearly well before any allegations of child molestation were made. Off the top of my head I can think of two fictional examples: the comic strip Bloom County was making fun of his behavior, and Eclipse published an issue of the comic book Crossfire that painted a very disturbing picture. The writer commented "I'm writing an issue about a seriously deranged child star. I'm making the fictional version about 12 so he's credible. This has nothing to do with the fact I just worked with Michael Jackson on a TV special."

That's all off the top of my head, so I can't really cite them. Since I didn't really follow his work, I'm not up on the "serious" rumors that were going around, but the notion that Michael Jackson had serious issues was very much a meme well before the child molestation allegations were made.
 
That's all off the top of my head, so I can't really cite them. Since I didn't really follow his work, I'm not up on the "serious" rumors that were going around, but the notion that Michael Jackson had serious issues was very much a meme well before the child molestation allegations were made.

Okay; thank-you. I never followed his work much, either. I enjoyed his music, I guess, but I never bought any of his albums or considered myself a fan.
 
Okay, found it. You'd have to be very, very distracted to not take notice of that sound.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhomMzTJS3g

If he was drugged out he may not have cared. And also if he knew it was the other boy he may have gotten off on him watching. It annoys men when people make illogical arguments that supposedly proves something that it doesn't.

Also, why does a person need an alarm bell to "let them know when someone s coming" when they are innocently sleeping in bed with a boy. :rolleyes:
 
Also, why does a person need an alarm bell to "let them know when someone s coming" when they are innocently sleeping in bed with a boy.

Why did he need anything at all? We could make an argument for someone of his wealth never needing almost anything. He could've lived in hotel rooms, had every meal trucked in, bought new clothes every single day.

So far as why did he want it? Who knows? As I said upstream, I'd probably have an alarm like that, too, just because I could.

But I'd have to insist on a different chime. Really.
 
Right, you'd want something less distracting. Maybe a song. A person picks an alarm like that because they want to know if someone comes in. It's the kind of an alarm a store has. And it's loud because they need to hear it right away. Which again brings me to the question of why he needs that if he's sleeping innocently in bed with the boy?

Obviously he's not doing that.
 
Right, you'd want something less distracting.

Actually, probably not. I'd just want something distinctive.

Obviously if it wasn't distracting, that would be counterproductive, no matter why it was installed.

If I was counting on it to make sure I never got caught changing clothes or in the shower or just snoring away, I'd want something that would wake me up. But...to me, that sounds like the bells that used to play at full-service gas stations when someone ran over the cables.
 
If he was drugged out he may not have cared. And also if he knew it was the other boy he may have gotten off on him watching. It annoys men when people make illogical arguments that supposedly proves something that it doesn't.

Also, why does a person need an alarm bell to "let them know when someone s coming" when they are innocently sleeping in bed with a boy. :rolleyes:

So he kept an alarm specifically to warn him when he is busy molesting children. But then he ignored it TWICE* (even though he didn't know who exactly was coming) when he was busy molesting children?

*The brother actually didn't even mention the alarm until the defence brought it up.
 
He actually had an alarm installed in his bedroom? I hadn't heard that. Some of you are straining to do so explaining.
 
Pretty much. And if he knew that the boy was coming he may not have cared. He may have gotten off on the idea of a small boy walking in on him abusing another.
 
Pretty much. And if he knew that the boy was coming he may not have cared. He may have gotten off on the idea of a small boy walking in on him abusing another.

How would he know it was the boy coming?
How would he know it wasn't two or three or ten people?
 
People do stuff in their bedrooms that's embarrassing, even though it's perfectly legal. You'd think he'd just lock the door, though.

I'm not talking about when he's alone. I'm talking about when he's in the bed with a boy.
 
He actually had an alarm installed in his bedroom? I hadn't heard that. Some of you are straining to do so explaining.

Not really. He was a tad paranoid about being kidnapped or attacked by overzealous fans. The reported "triple lock" on his safe that the cops had to crack? It was one lock The other lock was the keypad lock to his "rooms" and the third was the keypad lock to the house. "Triple locked safe containing evil stuff" said the D.A.
 

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