Official Bedini 10 Coil Kit Infomercial

[Christian Klippel]

BTW, about testing:

There isn't even a need to involve me or people i know into this. There are enough institutions out there who do that.

For example this company in Berlin. There is a whole list of institutions and companies who can do certified testing of stuff here.

It would be really easy to get that contraption tested properly by an independent, accredited body. However, ask yourself why none of these crackpots ever go this route? Here's a hint: because they know it will fail, which would bring their scam operations to a halt.

But surprise me. Let such an independent body thoroughly test that thing. Then put the results online for everyone to check. To make sure that there is no fluke, go and have two independent bodies do the same testing of the same device. Of course that device must be built accordingly and delivered in a working fashion. Don't even think about having the testing people to build that thing. That would simply leave too much cop-out ways. No, it has to be pre-built and has to come with a written affidavit that the delivered machine is indeed OK.

Greetings,

Chris

 

[quarky]

Kill joy.

Posts like the above really take the fun and excitement out of being in on the major breakthroughs of science that the government purposely suppresses to keep the simple folks down.

I suffered through about 10 you-tubes of free energy devices:
However sincere these 'salt of the Earth' types are, they always manage to be their own worst spokesperson. It amazes me, the lengths they go to with their various gizmos...yet, they seem to have an innate distrust of the laws of thermodynamics...which, so far, have been quite reliable and non-prejudicial.

 

[albert]

One last word, then I wont bother (with) you any more.
The Bedini system has been patented. Do you think all the patent examiners are morons, too? US 0130633 A1.
Here is a very similar patent by another engineer:
US 4055789
John B also has a European and a World patent application. I have not been able to find if this was granted or not.
I think this leads nowhere. I will try anyway to get the thing examined and keep you posted.

 

[LTC8K6]

A patent is not an indication that a device works.

We tested the machines with a very expensive metering device in an electronics lab.

What device was this?

 

[Christian Klippel]

A patent means just that: That something got a patent. It says absolutely nothing about the viability of the patented thing.

As a matter of fact, patent offices are flooded with applications. There are far to many applications for far too few people processing them. This naturally leads to the overall quality going down. Then you have the problem of the patent language itself. It usually is extremely convoluted and hard to understand. If that would not be the case, there wouldn't be that many patent litigations.

There is a patent in the patent database where one paragraph reads like "This is complete nonsense. If this gets granted, someone did not do his or her job properly. This is a joke." Too bad i lost the link to it. You can patent everything, as long as it does not directly say perpetuum mobile.

Really, a patent says absolutely nothing about the validity of the concept patented.

Greetings,

Chris

 

[Christian Klippel]

Oh, and albert, what do you think about the links i gave, that clearly show that Schwille is deep into the woo? Doesn't that bring up a red flag for you? How comes you missed these informations? After all, they show up pretty early in the Google search results.

Greetings,

Chris

 

[Horatius]

One last word, then I wont bother (with) you any more.
The Bedini system has been patented. Do you think all the patent examiners are morons, too? US 0130633 A1.

When discussing patents, it helps to get the number correct. If that's supposed to be a US patent number, it was issued a couple of hundred years ago.

A patent means just that: That something got a patent. It says absolutely nothing about the viability of the patented thing.

As a matter of fact, patent offices are flooded with applications. There are far to many applications for far too few people processing them. This naturally leads to the overall quality going down. Then you have the problem of the patent language itself. It usually is extremely convoluted and hard to understand. If that would not be the case, there wouldn't be that many patent litigations.

And on this issue, to find out what has actually been "patented", you must look at what is said in the claims. The applicant can say almost anything they want in the description, but it's the claims that define what was examined, and approved for a patent. Looking for patents by "Bedini", we can actually find quite a few.

Lets look at the main independent claims.


US7109671B2 2006-09-19 Device and method of a back EMF permanent electromagnetic motor generator

What is claimed is:

1. A method, comprising: generating, with a permanent magnet, a magnetic field that moves a magnetic pole;energizing a first coil to reverse the magnetic field;de-energizing the coil to collapse the reversed magnetic field; and capturing energy released by the collapsing magnetic field wherein capturing the energy comprises rectifying a fly-back signal that the collapsing magnetic field generates in a second coil.

...

6. An electric motor, comprising: a magnetic pole piece;a permanent magnet operable to generate a magnetic field at the magnetic pole piece;a coil that is operable to reverse the magnetic field during a coil-energize period and to release energy stored in the reversed magnetic field during a coil-fly-back period; anda recovery circuit operable to capture the energy released by the coil during the coil-fly-back period, wherein the recovery circuit comprises: a recovery coil that is magnetically coupled to the coil; anda rectifier coupled to the recovery coil.

7. An electric motor, comprising: a magnetic pole piece;a permanent magnet operable to generate a magnetic field at the magnetic pole piece;a coil that is operable to reverse the magnetic field during a coil-energize period and to release energy stored in the reversed magnetic field during a coil-fly-back period; anda recovery circuit operable to capture the energy released by the coil during the coil-fly-back period, wherein the recovery circuit comprises a full-wave rectifier.

Notice, no mention of how much energy is captured. The dependent claims don't rectify this.


US6677730B2 2004-01-13 Device and method for pulse charging a battery and for driving other devices with a pulse

What is claimed is:

1. A solid-state pulse battery charger wherein input power from a primary source is stored as a potential charge in a capacitor bank, said capacitor bank then disconnected from said input power source through a dual timing means, said capacitor then connected to a battery to receive the potential charge, the charge then discharged into said battery from said capacitor, said battery then disconnected from said capacitor through said dual timing means, said capacitor then re-connected to said input power source completing a two phase switching cycle comprising:

a. a means for providing input power;

b. a means for timing a signal and a current flow in two phases, a charge phase and a discharge phase, through either a first channel output for charging said capacitor bank, or a second channel output for discharging stored energy from said capacitor into said battery, the current flowing from said first channel output through a first optical isolator and through a first NPN power transistor, said first transistor activating a first pair of N-channel MOSFETs with voltage stored as the potential charge in said capacitor bank, said capacitor disconnecting from said input power means by said timing means;

c. said means for timing current flow connecting to said second channel output, current flowing from said second channel through a second optical isolator and through a second NPN power transistor, said second transistor activating a second pair of N-channel MOSFETs, said capacitor connecting to said battery, the potential charge discharging into said battery, said timing means disconnecting said capacitor from said battery, and connecting said capacitor to said power means.

US6545444B2 2003-04-08 Device and method for utilizing a monopole motor to create back EMF to charge batteries

1. A back EMF monopole motor utilizing a rotor wherein the magnets of said rotor maintain a polarity when in apposition with a stator pole piece having the polarity, said motor to capture available back EMF energy for charging and storage in a recovery device, the motor comprising:

a. a means for producing initial energy;

b. a means for capturing energy in the form of back EMF, said back EMF energy available as the result of a collapsing field in a coil, said coil comprised of multiple windings with said pole piece at one end of said stator of said coil, said pole piece having said polarity when magnetized and in apposition to said magnets of said rotor;

c. a means for rectifying said back EMF energy, said means comprising a voltage bridge for transferring said energy to a capacitor for storage;

d. a means for discharging said stored voltage across a recovery battery; and

e. a means for counting the revolutions on said rotor.

Shall we continue?

US6392370B1 2002-05-21 Device and method of a back EMF permanent electromagnetic motor generator

What is claimed is:

1. A back EMF permanent electromagnetic motor generator using a regauging process for capturing available electromagnetic energy in the system comprising:

a. a means for producing a source of input energy to said motor generator, said energy conducted through a power switch and a magnetic timing switch;
b. a means for timing said motor generator, having a timing wheel connected to a shaft, said timing wheel comprised of one or more magnets, said magnets arranged so that the South polarity faces outward and is in apposition with said timing switch;
c. a rotor and a means for transferring a force on said shaft, said rotor containing magnets having the same polarity;
d. a stator comprised of two bars made of a magnetic conductive means, said bars connected by a permanent magnet and having a pole piece at one end of each said bar, said pole pieces thereby magnetized and in apposition with magnets of said rotor, said rotor positioned between said pole pieces;
e. an input coil comprised of a conductive material wrapped around each of said bars of said stator, said input coil connected to a circuit;
f. an output coil comprised of a conductive material wrapped around each of said input coil of said bars, said output coils connected to a recovery rectifier or diode;
g. said circuit for transferring electrical power, said circuit connecting said means for producing input energy to said power switch, said circuit comprising a pickup timing switch thereby providing an electronic voltage pulse to said circuit and then to said coils resulting in rotation of said rotor, said rotor turning said timing wheel to provide additional electronic voltage pulses to said circuit and then to said coils again, thereby providing a means for collecting available back EMF energy for storage, use or dissipation into the system.

Well, this one captures "available" energy. That sounds nice and vague!

So, as was said above, these patents are basically meaningless when trying to claim "they work", if by "work", you mean "produce over unity". Because he's not claiming that, the examiner would not have had any reason to object to the patent on that basis. I'll let the engineering types figure out from the above what has actually been claimed, but I'm confident it's not over unity.

 

[TheDaver]

Sigh again....pointless to continue.

It really is. The sad thing is, you think we’re the hopeless idiots here.

1. Several Bedini machines are running in my workshop. Every day. They deliver energy to the secondary batteríes, light lamps and do all this far more longer than is possible with conventional thinking. That IS a fact.I don't give a **** if it's impossible.

It is not a fact. It’s a belief, based on ignorance and bad measurements.

2. Overunity, underunity....the stuff works as John says. Period. it runs right here for everyone to see. It is not a a matter of BELIEFS. It is a matter of taking the stuff and building it . Measuring it. As I have said a good battery charger indicating aH or Watts input -a voltmeter - an ammeter -a scope if you have one and A STOPWATCH are enough.

Not if you don’t know what you’re doing. Which you obviously don’t. Have you ever heard of $20,000 speaker wires, that are supposed to be the absolute best thing ever in terms of sound quality? Sure, they “work” insofar as they conduct electricity, but they don’t do what they claim to do. Same goes for Bedini’s crap (and that’s what it is, CRAP).

3. Build one. Test it. Run it. OBSERVE it with an open mind and not with a big board nailed to the front of your head.

Yeah, that’s also what you’ll say the problem was when somebody actually bothers to build, run and test one of these pieces of crap and proves you wrong.

See for yourself. Don't hide behind theories. There might be something your theories don't apply to.
I had these machines examined by expert electronics engineers, several physicists and someone who built the first semiconductors and integrated circuits in Germany for SIEMENS many years ago. They saw the machines and agree that there is no theory completely explaining where the energy comes from. But they don't say it is nonsense or ******** or it is not worth looking into.

I call BS.

4. Footnote: Driving a car in AUSTRALIA is a little different from driving in GERMANY where we get -20 degs Celsius in cold winters. That is when batteries fail. If they are sulphated or other wise damaged. Get that?

Oh, I get it. And I live in Canada where we get closer to -30°C in cold winters. And they don’t damage batteries like that, at least not for anybody who drives regularly. Losing charge is not the problem at all. It’s the battery’s ability to release its charge in the cold that’s a problem. A block heater will take care of that. No need to risk blow your money on some cockamamie free energy scheme.

 

[TjW]

One last word, then I wont bother (with) you any more.
The Bedini system has been patented. Do you think all the patent examiners are morons, too? US 0130633 A1.

Yes.

 

[Christian Klippel]

I call BS.

And rightfully so. So far he came up with one name of these experts, and it showed that this guy is deep into woo already. The "expert" is actually a guy peddling Tesla-Woo, financing a esoteric "energy place" woo, and is already peddling that Bedini crap. So, no surprise that this "expert" tells him that this contraption works.

So, that is one out of one down already. And i have little reason to think that the other "experts" are any different.

Just because someone has an education and title doesn't mean that person would never fall for woo.

Greetings,

Chris

 

[Brian-M]

We tested the machines with a very expensive metering device in an electronics lab.

That's not what you said before. You said "a good battery charger indicating aH or Watts input -a voltmeter - an ammeter -a scope if you have one and A STOPWATCH are enough". Why didn't you mention this in the first place?

The meter uses a wire that gets heated by a current that passes thru it. This is sealed in a vacuum tube with a sensor. The sensor voltage is converted into a display of the current. This method integrates a pulsed waveform and gives an accurate reading. Probably the only method with all these pulses. The meter was calibrated precisely (before you ask). Then we worked out a correction factor for the meters I use at home.

That's good, assuming you worked out the correction factor for the machine under the exact same conditions and operation as you're using to test it.

I use a multimeter with true RMS and a wattmeter with VA and cos phi display.

Many expensive multimeters with "true RMS" don't actually display true RMS if there is a DC offset (link). Since we're dealing with pulsed DC here, we have a huge DC offset. And since almost all wattmeters that measure VA, especially those that display cos phi (or phase angle) are intended to be used for AC power with a sinusoidal waveform, how can you be certain that this is giving correct readings for pulsed DC?

We set up a machine to draw 350 mA from a battery with this meter. We then charged two identical batteries - recovered 12 Volt 50 AH--from the grid with a calibrated charger and put in 15 AH (30 AH for both batts). Then I let the thing run and switched batteries every 8 to 10 hours by hand.
The machine ran for 144 hours. I stopped when both batts were rougly at 12 volts after some resting time.

Wait... how much current is the device putting back into the second battery? Since you're running off one battery and switching them around, these batteries are effectively in parallel. Total current is the sum of the current drawn from both batteries. Since you're putting X amount of current into the second battery, you're drawing negative current from it. You have to subtract this from the current being drawn from the first battery. So current = 0.35-X Amps.

We then recharged the batts the same way as before and ran both batts in parallel lighting a small lamp that drew 350 mA. Running time: 72 hours.

. | Device A | Device B Amps | 0.35-X | 0.35
Hours | 144 | 72

So, what does this tell us? NOTHING! Since we have no idea what X is, we have no idea how much power device A is consuming. All you've proven here is that a device that consumes less power than another device lasts longer before the batteries runs out.

That's not exactly groundbreaking news.

Calculate the amp hours for yourself.

I'd like to, but I can't. In order to calculate amp hours for the setup you describe for this machine, we have to know the total current supplied from the batteries. You give us the current from battery 1, but not the current from battery 2 (which is negative, because it's being charged). Without knowing the current to/from both batteries, or knowing exactly how much power your device is consuming, it's impossible to work out amp hours.

This whole overunity discussion is pointless because you are only considering a closed system. I'm talking about an open system that can draw energy from the environment. How exactly this happens- well I'd like a precise answer to that myself.That is the million dollar question.

Okay, fair enough. Forget how the device is drawing power from the environment for the moment. Just tell us where the device is drawing power from the environment. Thermal energy? Electromagnetic radiation? Acoustic vibrations?

If you know where the device is drawing energy from, you can measure it, and prove it. If you can't tell us where this device is drawing energy from, how do you know this device is drawing energy from the environment at all? Are you just guessing, just making stuff up as you go along?

Only time can prove who is right and who is wrong here.

Or proper measurements of power in vs. power out.

 

[quarky]

Maybe it draws power from the enthusiasm of its advocates?

I have a friend that got into the gizmology of producing hydrogen through onboard electrolysis of water in a car; this reaction being powered by the gasoline engine via its alternator. He flatly rejected my debunking, and left my house in anger over it.

I have since seen the error of my ways.
Turns out, his need for confirmation in this silly purchase actually enabled him to get better mileage...through the usual methods of keeping up tire pressure and lube; minimizing acceleration/braking; etc. He needed a point to prove before being willing to maximize his car's output.

I guess that counts for something.

 

[Brian-M]

I've succumbed to the temptation to explain this with a silly story...

We set up a machine to draw 350 mA from a battery with this meter. We then charged two identical batteries - recovered 12 Volt 50 AH--from the grid with a calibrated charger and put in 15 AH (30 AH for both batts). Then I let the thing run and switched batteries every 8 to 10 hours by hand.
The machine ran for 144 hours. I stopped when both batts were rougly at 12 volts after some resting time.
We then recharged the batts the same way as before and ran both batts in parallel lighting a small lamp that drew 350 mA. Running time: 72 hours. Calculate the amp hours for yourself. All the while we had a small amount of mechanical energy delivered by the rotor.

Little Boba met two guys, Luke and Han. Both Luke and Han had a habit of drinking two beers at the same time, although Han had another strange habit. Every time Han took a sip of beer from one glass, he would spit half of it back out into the other glass.

As little Boba watched them drink, he noticed they would both take sips from their glasses equally as often, and the amount of beer left in each glass was reduced by an equal amount. Clearly, they were drinking the beer at the same rate, but for some reason it would take Han twice as link to finish the same amount of beer as it took Luke.

"Holy crap!" said Boba. "Han must be making beer magically appear from somewhere else!"

Silly Boba! He forgot that half the beer that Han sipped from one glass got spat back out into the other, so he was really drinking half as much with each sip as Luke.

Don't be like Boba, and forget that what gets spat out again is subtracted from what went in.

_______________________________​

Glass = Battery
Beer = Electricity
Rate of drinking = Current
Luke = Lamp
Han = Bedini machine
Boba = Albert

 

[quarky]

Nice analogy.



What brand of beer?

 

[The Man]

Okay, fair enough. Forget how the device is drawing power from the environment for the moment. Just tell us where the device is drawing power from the environment. Thermal energy? Electromagnetic radiation? Acoustic vibrations?

If you know where the device is drawing energy from, you can measure it, and prove it. If you can't tell us where this device is drawing energy from, how do you know this device is drawing energy from the environment at all? Are you just guessing, just making stuff up as you go along?

You know this is the one thing that always intrigues me about these free energy claims. No one seems to actually care exactly where the purportedly free energy comes from as long as it seems free to them.

“What’s that, you invented a free energy machine that works by extracting all the energy from any pacemakers in a 500 mile radius?”

 

[Christian Klippel]

You know this is the one thing that always intrigues me about these free energy claims. No one seems to actually care exactly where the purportedly free energy comes from as long as it seems free to them.

“What’s that, you invented a free energy machine that works by extracting all the energy from any pacemakers in a 500 mile radius?”

Silly you, it all comes from the vacuum aether quantums!

Google for the "Searl Effect Generator" to get some real thrill. That thing is based on numerology, in this case magic squares. Some real weird claims. Not only is it supposed to produce energy from nothing, it also levitates, cleans the air, heals the sick.... And that particular scam is going on for 60 years or so now.

Greetings,

Chris

 

[Brian-M]

What brand of beer?

Keeping with the theme of the story, it would have to be Ackbar Ale. Our mouthes can't repel flavor of that magnitude!

 

[The Man]

Silly you, it all comes from the vacuum aether quantums!

Google for the "Searl Effect Generator" to get some real thrill. That thing is based on numerology, in this case magic squares. Some real weird claims. Not only is it supposed to produce energy from nothing, it also levitates, cleans the air, heals the sick.... And that particular scam is going on for 60 years or so now.

Greetings,

Chris

“Surreal Effect Generator” would seem to be a more appropriate name.


Sounds like the Interociter from “This Island Earth”.

"There's no limit to what it could do. Laying a four lane highway at the rate of a mile a minute would be a cinch."

 

[quarky]

If a device extracted power from water's expansion into a solid, what would the source be?
Is it solar? In as much as the sun's energy is required to make it liquid to begin with, it seems like solar, but backwards.

 

[Brian-M]

If a device extracted power from water's expansion into a solid, what would the source be?
Is it solar? In as much as the sun's energy is required to make it liquid to begin with, it seems like solar, but backwards.

It's thermal.

If the water is going from liquid to solid, the surrounding temperature is colder than the water is. What you're doing is extracting energy from a difference in temperature, which is a very commonplace source of energy.

When you think about it, a power plant is extracting energy from the expansion of water from liquid into gas, which is sort of the same. Either way, liquid/ice or liquid/steam, the energy is being extracted from a difference in temperature.