Belz...
Fiend God
That's because we all want to forget that one. It was such a disappointing conclusion to the River arc. Rushed and silly.
Of time travel and Hitler
- Thread starter HansMustermann
- Start date
That's because we all want to forget that one. It was such a disappointing conclusion to the River arc. Rushed and silly.
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2016
- Messages
- 29,770
If you removed Hitler from history, it would have devastating repercussions to media, Art and academic history departments.
Are we sure saving millions of lives would be worth that?
Are we sure saving millions of lives would be worth that?
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
I think if anyone time travelled they wouldn't actually be able to change anything: either the changes once made would be incorporated into the time traveller's past and therefore have always occurred, making the change not a change at all, or else they'd just go down a different trouser leg of time from the one they're used to, while the 'original' version continues as it was in the other leg. Either way the attempted change only really affects the time traveller himself.
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
Not to mention that there is an infinite number of timelines that have never been visited by a time traveler. This is one of them. *
* as far as we know
Last edited:
Senex
Philosopher
Don't forget cable channel programming. The History, Military... channels would need years and years of new programming. I mean the Crimean War is kind of interesting but I don't think these wars can fill the holes in time slots that would be needed with the dissolving of WWII.
Armitage72
Philosopher
There was an adventure for the Champions superhero RPG called "Wings of the Valkyrie", published in 1987. The publisher recalled the adventure and destroyed it, making it somewhat rare these days.
A group of European superhumans who had lived through the Holocaust went back in time and killed Hitler during the Beer Hall Putsch. A chain of events in the following decades resulted in large-scale global nuclear, biological, and chemical warfare, and I think the US became a fascist government. The players, whose characters were temporarily shielded from the change in history, had to go back in time and stop the other time travelers, saving Hitler and making sure the Holocaust happened. Response to the adventure was not positive.
A group of European superhumans who had lived through the Holocaust went back in time and killed Hitler during the Beer Hall Putsch. A chain of events in the following decades resulted in large-scale global nuclear, biological, and chemical warfare, and I think the US became a fascist government. The players, whose characters were temporarily shielded from the change in history, had to go back in time and stop the other time travelers, saving Hitler and making sure the Holocaust happened. Response to the adventure was not positive.
Loss Leader
I would save the receptionist., Moderator
There was a remarkably weird episode of 'Quantum Leap" where Sam thought he'd been sent back as Lee Harvey Oswald to save JFK but was actually supposed to save Jackie - because she died in Sam's original timeline or something.
rdaneel
Illuminator
Yes, if you prevent WWII, over generations, the number of people you just deleted from history would far exceed the number saved by there being no war.
My parents were born before the baby boom, but they met at Ramstein Air Base in Germany. A place that wouldn't exist if there was no WWII.
You would also create an equal number of new people who never existed. Seems like a wash to me.
I wouldn't want you to do it though, as I'd be one of those deleted.
I recall an alternate history paper that speculated on the effect of an early assassination attempt succeeding. Using his files on all the German leaders, Reinhard Heydrich took over. Every bit as evil as the old boss, but brilliant, efficient and hard working. It was not an improvement.
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
The worst outcome of time travel preventing Hitler is that moustache style not becoming taboo. Ugh.
Armitage72
Philosopher
I remember another science fiction setting in which Tesla was able to get funding for all of the devices that only existed on paper in our world. The technological revolution stimulated the world economy, including Germany, so the Nazis never came to power. One of the side effects was that, due to the lack of stigma from the Nazis, eugenics was still widely practiced in the US.
Hitler appears again next week in the new Finnish-German movie Iron Sky 2: The Coming Race (Wikipedia) based to some extent on the old novel Vril, the Power of the Coming Race (Wikipedia):
But maybe time travelers should consider killing Steve Jobs instead:
But maybe time travelers should consider killing Steve Jobs instead:
*Sitting in my house on a normal night, playing videos games on the coach. Suddenly a futuristic looking man and a better looking, healthier, and more successful looking version of me appears in my living room*
Man: And this is what would have happened to you if hadn't made the choices you did!
Better Me: Oh my God that's terrible! I've learned my lesson, no more messing with my own timeline!
*The man hits a button on a device mounted to his wrist. They both vanish.*
*Beat*
Me: Well not gonna lie... that stung a bit.
Man: And this is what would have happened to you if hadn't made the choices you did!
Better Me: Oh my God that's terrible! I've learned my lesson, no more messing with my own timeline!
*The man hits a button on a device mounted to his wrist. They both vanish.*
*Beat*
Me: Well not gonna lie... that stung a bit.
Last edited:
Elagabalus
Philosopher
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2013
- Messages
- 7,051
Just go back and tell Georg Elser to set his clock back 13 minutes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Elser#Bombing
OK, maybe 15 minutes ... just in case.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Elser#Bombing
OK, maybe 15 minutes ... just in case.
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
Rincewind
Philosopher
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
This is a silly and pointless thought experiment because time travel by humans is impossible.
Last edited:
Your conclusion doesn’t follow from the premise. Yes time travel is impossible, but that doesn’t mean that considering how things may have turned out differently had some particular event happened differently is “silly and pointless”. The ability to make a mental model and consider different possible outcomes is perhaps at the core of human cognition. Framing it in terms of time travel is just a way of thinking about that, not a literal expectation that time travel is possible.
Plus it’s fun.
Plus it’s fun.
Brainster
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- May 26, 2006
- Messages
- 21,937
For a long time after WWII, time traveler stories of this type (going back into the past to prevent or cause something) tended to focus on preventing Abe Lincoln's assassination. I can remember this being the plot of various stories, comic books, and an episode of the Time Tunnel.
The problem is that we can too easily focus on the positive effects of preventing one event in history, and fail to see the negatives. I mean, it's hard to see the direct connection, but suppose (say) Abraham Lincoln's death had set about a chain of events such that Charles Lindbergh had been elected president in 1936 or 1940. It's easy to imagine that might have led to a Nazi victory over Great Britain.
Hitler was a very evil man, but would killing him around 1939 have stopped the ticking time bomb that was WWII? As somebody pointed out, suppose it was Heydrich who won the subsequent power struggle? And of course one would assume that assassinating him in 1939 would not be an easy thing to accomplish unlike murdering him as a small boy. Of course murdering him as a child would probably not work; some other person would come to power in much the same way.
Let me point out this potential negative outcome: without WWII, the US might have stayed in the depression longer. Or without WWII, the millions who lost their lives would be the great-grandparents of hundreds of millions of more Europeans and Americans, who would today be contributing to global warming.
The problem is that we can too easily focus on the positive effects of preventing one event in history, and fail to see the negatives. I mean, it's hard to see the direct connection, but suppose (say) Abraham Lincoln's death had set about a chain of events such that Charles Lindbergh had been elected president in 1936 or 1940. It's easy to imagine that might have led to a Nazi victory over Great Britain.
Hitler was a very evil man, but would killing him around 1939 have stopped the ticking time bomb that was WWII? As somebody pointed out, suppose it was Heydrich who won the subsequent power struggle? And of course one would assume that assassinating him in 1939 would not be an easy thing to accomplish unlike murdering him as a small boy. Of course murdering him as a child would probably not work; some other person would come to power in much the same way.
Let me point out this potential negative outcome: without WWII, the US might have stayed in the depression longer. Or without WWII, the millions who lost their lives would be the great-grandparents of hundreds of millions of more Europeans and Americans, who would today be contributing to global warming.