• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

Obama's State of the Union Address

Not his fault. You have to write these rebuttals ahead of time. It's too difficult if you have to do it right after the speech.

I could be missing the joke but doesn't that mean it is not actually a "rebuttal" but a knee-jerk attack.

Obama will do a speech about who knows what and we'll reply with something we hate about Obama. And Saul Alinsky (did he get a mention?)
 
If only any of them would do what they say they want to do. Sigh...
I'd say that Obama, more so than most Presidents, has done a reasonbly good job of keeping his campaign promises, at least the ones he had real control over. He did in fact get a health plan passed. Not a perfect one, to be sure, but better than nothing. He ended DADT. He kept the schedule for getting troops out of Iraq. He carried through on his promise to keep the pressure on terrorists, much more so than his predecessor. No, he didn't fix the economy. That's not really in his power. He might have done better without Republicans who were more committed to seeing him fail than they are to the country they supposedly love, but no, he didn't keep all those promises. I suspect the story would be the same had a Republican been elected. And he has tried to be bipartasan, sometimes to his own detriment. He appointed (or reappointed) Republicans to key posts, including John Huntsman, one of his rivals. He gave in (much to the dismay of many Democrats) to the GOP on many issues in the health care debate. His foreign policy has been lauded by most of our allies and even grudgingly by some Republicans.

But he is, in fact, a politician. Politicians say stuff to make themselves look better and to get elected. Big shock. At least none of the stuff he has said has been comically bad, like Gingrich's "I had affairs because I love my country too much."

For what it's worth, Obama makes clear and cogent speeches. And that is not worthless. Not to the people of the USA. Not to their allies.
 
I agree with you, Tricky.

I was particularly interested in what he had to say about outsourcing, and was glad to see that he sent a bit of time on it - but in the end he seemed to just leave it to the greedy CEO's to solve.

CEO's don't have a flag hanging behind their desks - they have dollar signs.
 
I agree with you, Tricky.

I was particularly interested in what he had to say about outsourcing, and was glad to see that he sent a bit of time on it - but in the end he seemed to just leave it to the greedy CEO's to solve.
I'm glad of that too. But I acknowledge it is a difficult issue. If you eliminate outsourcing, then things cost more. People will scream "my paycheck can't cover inflation" without thinking "Wow! I have a paycheck!" It's never going to be perfect.

CEO's don't have a flag hanging behind their desks - they have dollar signs.
While I'm all in for anti-greed, playing devil's advocate, the CEO's are at the mercy of the stockholders. Every stockholder wants their stocks to increase, and they usually don't care how you do it. But if you don't do it, you're out. Still, I strongly disagree with the amount of money that is paid to the CEOs of large corporations. Nobody needs that much money.
 
I really liked how the President ended his speech where he made the analogy to the SEAL team which took out Osama bin Laden.
 
I don't know how much you make, but let's say it's $80,000. A person making $20,000 might say "Nobody needs that much money". Would you be willing to cut your salary?

Something to think about. :)

I can answer that question with a definitive: "Yes."

My union just voluntarily agreed to a new contract wherein we took a pay cut.

So there, Scrut :p

[/derail]
 
I agree with you, Tricky.

I also agree with Tricky, but he did not mention stopping the Bush administration Enron style accounting and putting the cost of the wars on the books. Of course this gave the GOP more ammunition. They prefer their books cooked.

Daredelvis
 
I can answer that question with a definitive: "Yes."

My union just voluntarily agreed to a new contract wherein we took a pay cut.

So there, Scrut :p

[/derail]

I took a pay cut too - along with all of my co-workers this year. It was NOT voluntary by any means, but the CEO of my company got a 7 million dollar bonus on TOP of his regular salary.
 
I took a pay cut too - along with all of my co-workers this year. It was NOT voluntary by any means, but the CEO of my company got a 7 million dollar bonus on TOP of his regular salary.

I have to wonder how Scrut feels about this kind of scenario. Scrut, when is it okay for those of us who have sacrificed, either voluntarily or not, to stand up and demand that those who make so much money, like this CEO, start to make their own sacrifices?
 
Last edited:
I don't know how much you make, but let's say it's $80,000. A person making $20,000 might say "Nobody needs that much money". Would you be willing to cut your salary?

Something to think about. :)
I have cut my salary many times by my charitable donations, and I've indicated that if taxes were raised on my income bracket, I'd be willing to pay them, depending on the reason for raising them. (I consider universal health care a good reason.) I make a good salary, but I live within my means and help others when I can. I can refer you to a few people on this forum if you doubt me.
 
I would have liked to reach through my plasma and slap Cantor upside the head and then poke, three stooges style, Mitch Mcconnell in the eyes.

I would have also liked Obama, when telling Congress to put a bill on his desk, to add, "and don't attach any lame dumb ass **** like that pipeline crap".
 
I don't know how much you make, but let's say it's $80,000. A person making $20,000 might say "Nobody needs that much money". Would you be willing to cut your salary?

Something to think about. :)

Right, because 80K vs 20K is the same as +1M vs 20K. The wealthy keep getting wealthier, while the rest of us keep losing. It's the opposite of what I perceive as fair.

Why should my CEO get a huge pay increase, on the grade of millions, while I have to cut my pay? In fact, I'd be happy to stay the same salary, if the CEO for-go'd his millions of bonuses just to keep more of my co-workers employed.
 
I'd say that Obama, more so than most Presidents, has done a reasonbly good job of keeping his campaign promises, at least the ones he had real control over.

"Most." "Reasonably good job." "Real control." That doesn't come across at all weaselly!

Let's see... first, for each President, let's remove all the campaign promises over which they didn't have "real control"[1]. It's your claim, so I'll let you review each president's record and decide for yourself which of their promises meet the "real control" standard.

Then, for each President, for each of their remaining campaign promises, let's decide whether they did a "reasonably good job" of keeping it. Again, it's your claim, so I'll let you decide which promises meet the "reasonably good job" standard.

Not counting Barack Obama, there have been 43 Presidents. At a minimum, 22 would qualify as "most" of them.

So. Which 22 previous presidents, at least, would you say have failed to meet your "Obama standard" of "reasonably good job" and "real control", regarding their campaign promises?

And speaking of "real control", didn't most of the wrangling over health care reform happen in the legislature? Did Obama really have substantial control over that process? It would be silly to absolve him of responsibility for things that didn't happen that he didn't have control over, unless you're also going to refrain from crediting him for things that did happen that he didn't have any control over.













--
[1] Leaving aside, for the moment, the silliness of giving a politician a pass for making campaign promises over which he didn't have any "real control".
 
I don't know how much you make, but let's say it's $80,000. A person making $20,000 might say "Nobody needs that much money". Would you be willing to cut your salary?

Something to think about. :)
Well being tends to top out around that point. But humans are varied so I'm willing to be conservative. $300,000 a year? $400,000? There is a huge difference between $20,000 and $80,000.

Now, I would absolutely be against a cap. I'm a fan of capitalism and liberty. Who am I tell another person how much they can acquire? But it is damn easy to say that at some point the diminishing returns end. There are only so many hours in the day and only so much you can do to feel safe, secure, happy, ecstatic, etc.

Yeah, no one needs that much money.
 
Last edited:
It was pretty funny, too. I was sure that was Biden and Pelosi sitting behind him but that girl with the tweezed eyebrows and rich orange foundation was actually Boehner.

I had to squint, though.

Looks like somebody **** tangerine all over his face.
 
I don't know how much you make, but let's say it's $80,000. A person making $20,000 might say "Nobody needs that much money". Would you be willing to cut your salary?

Something to think about. :)
All too often I see people who make $80,000 give "financial advice" to those making $20,000. It usually involves criticism of what the lower income folks have in their households and that them being broke is primarily because of their spending habits.

Point is that people always think of what other people should be able to get by with.
 
Last edited:

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom