Obama mulls reaching out to moderate Taliban

[Texas]

NEW YORK (Reuters) – President Barack Obama is open to the idea of reaching out to moderate elements of the Taliban, The New York Times reported on Saturday.

In an interview with the newspaper published on its website, Obama said that some of the U.S. success in Iraq involved reaching out to Islamic fundamentalists who had been alienated by the tactics of al Qaeda in Iraq.

"There may be some comparable opportunities in Afghanistan and the Pakistani region," he said. "But the situation in Afghanistan is, if anything, more complex."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090307/pl_nm/us_obama_afghanistan_2

What is a "moderate"Taliban element?

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

That *****, and only sending 17,000 more troops too. He's an insane pacifist Nazi appeaser, I say!

 

[Texas]

That *****, and only sending 17,000 more troops too. He's an insane pacifist Nazi appeaser, I say!

So can you define a moderate taliban?

 

[jj]

What's a "moderate taliban"?

 

[WildCat]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090307/pl_nm/us_obama_afghanistan_2

What is a "moderate"Taliban element?

They just throw acid on teachers at girl's schools instead of beheading them?

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

What is a "moderate"Taliban element?

Apparently, based on experiences in Iraq, it's someone who is turned off by al Queda's actions and willing to talk to us.

Perhaps there are none, but if there are, it can't hurt to talk to them.

 

[Texas]

Apparently, based on experiences in Iraq, it's someone who is turned off by al Queda's actions and willing to talk to us.

Perhaps there are none, but if there are, it can't hurt to talk to them.

So because they may be against Al Qaeda they are moderates? The Taliban, by definition, are the most extreme Isalmists on earth. Show me a "moderate" Talibani and it will be a headless corpse.

 

[UserGoogol]

So because they may be against Al Qaeda they are moderates? The Taliban, by definition, are the most extreme Isalmists on earth. Show me a "moderate" Talibani and it will be a headless corpse.

Moderate is an inherently relative term. A moderate in 19th century American debate on slavery might have argued on behalf of sending freed blacks to Africa, which is a rather extremist stance nowadays. Also, they don't actually quote administration officials using the word moderate, so it's entirely possible the Obama administration doesn't even use that word and was only talking about "breakaway elements" in the Taliban instead. It seems pedantic and petty to focus on that word instead of addressing the actual question as to whether this is a sound strategy.

And on that note, it sounds plausible enough to my layman's ears. We certainly wouldn't want to hand complete control of the government back to the Taliban, but if we can find some people who would be willing to work with us for modest concessions, that certainly would be nice, so it doesn't seem like a bad idea to be on the lookout for such persuadables.

 

[Texas]

Moderate is an inherently relative term. A moderate in 19th century American debate on slavery might have argued on behalf of sending freed blacks to Africa, which is a rather extremist stance nowadays. Also, they don't actually quote administration officials using the word moderate, so it's entirely possible the Obama administration doesn't even use that word and was only talking about "breakaway elements" in the Taliban instead. It seems pedantic and petty to focus on that word instead of addressing the actual question as to whether this is a sound strategy.

It sounds plausible enough to my layman's ears. We certainly wouldn't want to hand complete control of the government back to the Taliban except as a very last resort, but if we can find some people who would be willing to work with us for modest concessions, that certainly would be nice, so it doesn't seem like a bad idea to be on the lookout for such persuadables.

This is nothing like the Anbar Awakening in Iraq. There its was Iraqis fighting Al Qaeda foreign troops with our support. The Taliban are Afghani and any Al Qaeda left are fighting side by side with them The moment a so called Talibani moderate is caught cooperating with the US that person is dead at the hands of the Taliban itself. You are also forgetting that if we start cozying up to the Taliban then groups like the Northern Alliance will turn against us in a New York minute. Having said that what "moderate" concessions would you propose?

 

[jj]

The Taliban are Afghani

Uh, you want to check on that? Yes, they more or less invaded (not in the overt sense) Afghanistan, and took it over, but that's not making them Afghani, now, is it?

Yes, reactionary elements in Afghanistan joined them, but where did they come from initially, now?

 

[Texas]

Uh, you want to check on that? Yes, they more or less invaded (not in the overt sense) Afghanistan, and took it over, but that's not making them Afghani, now, is it?

Yes, reactionary elements in Afghanistan joined them, but where did they come from initially, now?

They are Afghani that were schooled in Pakistani Madrases. Maybe you can define a "moderate" Talibani. No one else seems to want to try.

 

[Travis]

Perhaps a moderate Taliban individual would believe in many of the tenets of radical Islam while rejecting the brutal way they were implemented by Mullah Omar and may also disapprove of terrorism as a way to further their faith. Surely not every single person in the Taliban is as murderous and blood thirsty as the most radical.

That said I think something like this should only be tried with great caution. Not only do we risk alienating the Northern Alliance but who's to say these people might not be double agents?

 

[Texas]

Perhaps a moderate Taliban individual would believe in many of the tenets of radical Islam while rejecting the brutal way they were implemented by Mullah Omar and may also disapprove of terrorism as a way to further their faith. Surely not every single person in the Taliban is as murderous and blood thirsty as the most radical.

That said I think something like this should only be tried with great caution. Not only do we risk alienating the Northern Alliance but who's to say these people might not be double agents?

I don't see how you can believe in the tenets of radical Islam especially Shira law and be against the brutality that is inherent in it. The Taliban is by its very nature radical and murderous so how can you be Taliban and not be Murderous and blood thirsty? It seems to be like saying some skunks don't stink. This appears to be an acknowledgement that Obama does not see any way to civilise the country, a stance I agree with, BUT at least have the moral courage to say that and not risk any more NATO troops. It would be far better to provide aid to the Northern Alliance and let them fight it out with the Taliban. If the NA is left to fight the Taliban on its terms and not under NATO ROE it could very well win the day. The NATO allies are already telling him that they have no intention of providing more troops and the 30,000 that he says he will send is like putting a drop of water in the ocean.

 

[leftysergeant]

Afghanistan is the graveyard of empires and will always be so.

There is no possible military victory in the country.

This does not preclude success in a forceful diplomatic campaign. Negotiate a peace tha leaves Afghanistan stable, denies al Qaeda a base of operations, and then get the hell out.

We need to deal with both the NA and Taliban. They are going to have to work this out between themselves.

Forget Karzai. He has never been much more than Mayor of Kabul anyway.

But we are, sooner or later, going to have to deal with someone. Simple facts of the situation mean that that has to include the Taliban.

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

So....

Don't put words in the mouths of others. It's impolite and not a good way of making a point.

 

[gumboot]

The Taliban have never been supporters of wholesale violence - in fact it was disgust at the wholesale sadistic violence carried out by the Mujahideen warlords that caused the creation of the Taliban in the first place.

 

[Dr Adequate]

What is a "moderate"Taliban element?

Those who might be persuaded to lay down their weapons.

 

[Dr Adequate]

I don't see how you can believe in the tenets of radical Islam especially Shira law and be against the brutality that is inherent in it. The Taliban is by its very nature radical and murderous so how can you be Taliban and not be Murderous and blood thirsty?

Well, perhaps the nearest American analogy is the KKK. Yes, they're revolting, but if they confine their effort to free speech and the ballot box, then they are, at least provisionally, not opposing democracy. Maybe they would like to impose what they believe to be God's law by, for example, executing gay people for breaking a rule in Leviticus, but so long as they are prepared to advance this goal through democratic rather than violent means, then we put up with them.

This is a fairly loose analogy, so please don't get this thread bogged down in the details of the differences between the two groups.

 

[Oliver]

Why not taking Iran's help again to overthrow the Taliban?

 

[WildCat]

Well, look at how well negotiating with "moderate" Taliban factions has worked for Pakistan in the Swat valley!