Obama isn't black enough...

[Smidge]

Waaaay later than the ahead-of-the-rest-thinking JREF mems, The Guardian newspaper has this story today...

http://http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2023808,00.html - Headline: Is Obama black enough?

Maybe they borrowed the idea from here.

BTW what's wrong or right or not right or whatever with simply being AMERICAN? I'm always amused by Americans saying 'I'm Irish', or Italian or whatever. I'm old fashioned about that kinda thing - I'm actually really bleedin Irish right?!

 

[bigred]

BTW what's wrong or right or not right or whatever with simply being AMERICAN?

Nothing, but you have to specify what "kind" of American you are so we can all think of ourselves as equal and not get wrapped up in the differences.

 

[Smidge]

OK - I still don't get why Americans like or are eager to qualify what type/kind of American you are.

I was very surprised at the questions Obama was asked in the article I posted the link to above:

" During an interview with CBS's Steve Kroft, who is white, just two weeks ago, the line of questioning went as follows:

Kroft: Your mother was white. Your father was African?
Obama: Right.

Kroft: You spent most of your life in a white household?
Obama: Yeah.

Kroft: I mean, you grew up white.
Obama: I'm not sure that would be true. I think what would be true is that I
don't have the typical background of African-Americans . . .

Kroft: You were raised in a white household?
Obama: Right.
Kroft: Yet at some point, you decided that you were black?"


So, at some point did Americans decided that they were a certain 'kind' of white, ie, Irish-American, Italian-American - honestly, it sounds somewhat ludicrous.

I can understand people who want to demonstrate that they have a specific history and/or heritage but by identifying yourself as such doesn't mean that you have any connection or knowledge of that.

Any Irish-Americans I've met scare the hell out of me. Their idea of what Irish culture is has never existed. Or worse they are the truly scary ignorant ones who believe in funding certain causes to 'free Ireland'.

I certainly don't know any people in Ireland who say, eg, I'm Irish-Chinese or Italian-Irish. More often they would say, eg, 'My grandfather or parents was/is Chinese but I was born here - I'm Irish'.

So why can't Americans simply be Americans without qualifying it?

 

[RandFan]

If Bill Clinton, a white man, could be the first black president, why can't Obama be second? I don't get it.

 

[Dave1001]

OK - I still don't get why Americans like or are eager to qualify what type/kind of American you are.

I was very surprised at the questions Obama was asked in the article I posted the link to above:

" During an interview with CBS's Steve Kroft, who is white, just two weeks ago, the line of questioning went as follows:

Kroft: Your mother was white. Your father was African?
Obama: Right.

Kroft: You spent most of your life in a white household?
Obama: Yeah.

Kroft: I mean, you grew up white.
Obama: I'm not sure that would be true. I think what would be true is that I
don't have the typical background of African-Americans . . .

Kroft: You were raised in a white household?
Obama: Right.
Kroft: Yet at some point, you decided that you were black?"


So, at some point did Americans decided that they were a certain 'kind' of white, ie, Irish-American, Italian-American - honestly, it sounds somewhat ludicrous.

I can understand people who want to demonstrate that they have a specific history and/or heritage but by identifying yourself as such doesn't mean that you have any connection or knowledge of that.

Any Irish-Americans I've met scare the hell out of me. Their idea of what Irish culture is has never existed. Or worse they are the truly scary ignorant ones who believe in funding certain causes to 'free Ireland'.

I certainly don't know any people in Ireland who say, eg, I'm Irish-Chinese or Italian-Irish. More often they would say, eg, 'My grandfather or parents was/is Chinese but I was born here - I'm Irish'.

So why can't Americans simply be Americans without qualifying it?

Isn't your question rather arbitrary? Why can't they be world citizens? Organisms? Pieces of the cosmos? Why do people integrate gender as part of their identity? On the other hand, why not do any of these things? My biggest question, why would anyone want everyone to do the exact same thing? You really want 300 million American citizens all defining themselves as American without qualifications, variations, twists? That's the scariest thought of all to me.

 

[AmateurScientist]

If Bill Clinton, a white man, could be the first black president, why can't Obama be second? I don't get it.

Thanks for that link. I've been erroneously attributing Toni Morrison's declaration to Maya Angelou. It's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard.

Once I first heard that assertion in The New Yorker years ago, I immediately thought, "So it's not about skin color after all, is it?" What is so often termed racism in the US is actually about culture and political ideology, not race. Clarence Thomas and Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice are excellent examples of not being black to some folks. They are black Republicans and conservatives. Within the populist notion of "blackness" in so much of the US, "black conservative" is simply an oxymoron. Of course, it's also absurd to make such a claim.

Each of the persons I mentioned are old enough and "black" enough to have experienced racism growing up, and to some extent still do today. If that's not bad enough, they also have to deal with allegations by too many other black persons (and some liberal whites as well) that they are "race traitors" and have forgotten their roots. I loathe such allegations and find them deeply insulting to their targets and to black persons in general. The implicit message is that black persons are too stupid to think for themselves, or to chart their own courses in life, and that they must subscribe to some monolithic "black" ideology and lifestyle.

Stuff it, "blackness" proponents. You cannot chastise persons you believe to be racists for stereotyping black persons and simultaneously chastise black conservatives for being "race traitors" without being hypocrites of the highest order. In other words, STFU. I'm looking at you, Toni Morrison.

AS

 

[RandFan]

Thanks for that link. I've been erroneously attributing Toni Morrison's declaration to Maya Angelou. It's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard.

Once I first heard that assertion in The New Yorker years ago, I immediately thought, "So it's not about skin color after all, is it?" What is so often termed racism in the US is actually about culture and political ideology, not race. Clarence Thomas and Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice are excellent examples of not being black to some folks. They are black Republicans and conservatives. Within the populist notion of "blackness" in so much of the US, "black conservative" is simply an oxymoron. Of course, it's also absurd to make such a claim.

Each of the persons I mentioned are old enough and "black" enough to have experienced racism growing up, and to some extent still do today. If that's not bad enough, they also have to deal with allegations by too many other black persons (and some liberal whites as well) that they are "race traitors" and have forgotten their roots. I loathe such allegations and find them deeply insulting to their targets and to black persons in general. The implicit message is that black persons are too stupid to think for themselves, or to chart their own courses in life, and that they must subscribe to some monolithic "black" ideology and lifestyle.

Stuff it, "blackness" proponents. You cannot chastise persons you believe to be racists for stereotyping black persons and simultaneously chastise black conservatives for being "race traitors" without being hypocrites of the highest order. In other words, STFU. I'm looking at you, Toni Morrison.

AS

Great post.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Can someone please quote Popeye?

 

[bigred]

So why can't Americans simply be Americans without qualifying it?

Because morons and stupidity, not to mention some strangely dire need to reinforce one's importance or "special-ness" socially, are rampant here.

This is news?

 

[mollyblack]

One friend who is black has a Kenyan father and a Filipino mother. He is not African-American. He is (and uses the term about himself and others in PhD program that are as well) black. He is not a Kenyan-Filipino American. Not by his standards anyway.

And when I went to Ireland and backpacked around with him, (he's short and black and wears bright raver clothes and I'm taller than him and had pink hair at the time) we had NO problems finding lifts with people that had room in their cars. I love and miss Dublin. He was black then and I was "pinky!" or some such names by people who found something easy to identify me by.

 

[Smidge]

Isn't your question rather arbitrary? Why can't they be world citizens? Organisms? Pieces of the cosmos? Why do people integrate gender as part of their identity? On the other hand, why not do any of these things? My biggest question, why would anyone want everyone to do the exact same thing? You really want 300 million American citizens all defining themselves as American without qualifications, variations, twists? That's the scariest thought of all to me.

Honestly, I don't think so (in answer to the 'arbitrary' q).

I genuinely think of myself as Irish. It makes sense to me.

Why shouldn't an American think of themselves as American, without a qualification? If you're born in the US, grew up there, went to school there and have US experiences as your reference point, why not?

I know Brits think of themselves of British and some will say they're specifically English. Scots may say 'I'm Scottish' firstly rather than saying their British. The Welsh may do so also.

But in my various travels, broad reading and various conversations etc, etc, I can't think of another nationality that does this 'qualifying' thing. For example, do Canadians do this also?

World citizenship is, to put it in very simplistic terms, a nice idea. Sorry – I’m not trying to disparage the idea – but I don’t think it’s realistic or could actually work today. I like and enjoy my Irish-ness!

I wasn't particularly wondering about nationality or specific identity (which is more personal and complicated) but why, (and it seems I'm alone on this!), I hear Americans specifying a 'heritage' (for wont of a better word) than simply saying ‘American’.

Also, this seems particular to America (the USA, if you will) that this occurs. Maybe other people have more information and experience about this, personal or otherwise.

I’d very much like to hear it.#

And when I went to Ireland and backpacked around with him, (he's short and black and wears bright raver clothes and I'm taller than him and had pink hair at the time) we had NO problems finding lifts with people that had room in their cars. I love and miss Dublin. He was black then and I was "pinky!" or some such names by people who found something easy to identify me by.

I'm really glad you both enjoyed your experience here, ie, Ireland!

Incidentally, were you hitch-hiking? I would NEVER hitch-hike in Ireland. Well, not since I was much younger - just goes ta show ya!