Obama is 150% more secretive than Bush.

[boyntonstu]

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20100316/D9EFLQB80.html

PROMISES, PROMISES: Is gov't more open with Obama?

“……………..
An Associated Press review of Freedom of Information Act reports filed by 17 major agencies found that the use of nearly every one of the law's nine exemptions to withhold information from the public rose in fiscal year 2009, which ended last October.

Among the most frequently used exemptions: one that lets the government hide records that detail its internal decision-making. Obama specifically directed agencies to stop using that exemption so frequently, but that directive appears to have been widely ignored.

Major agencies cited that exemption at least 70,779 times during the 2009 budget year, up from 47,395 times during President George W. Bush's final full budget year, according to annual FOIA reports filed by federal agencies. Obama was president for nine months in the 2009 period. …..”

Obama 1.5 times more secretive than Bush!

70,779/47,395


Why do the agencies 'ignore' the President?

 

[Dancing David]

How many requests were there during the GWB era?

 

[MikeMangum]

Well, to be fair, the bureaucracy is not that responsive to the will of the President. Originally, the President had iron control over all aspects of the Executive branch, but as government took on more functions, Congress necessarily reduced the control of the President over Executive branch functions. Otherwise, the President would have sole control over much of the government. It is called Unitary_executive_theory^WP.

The problem with the watered down power of the President in regard to the Executive branch is that there is not clear accountability for actions and policies of the Executive branch. Decisions are made by long service, unelected civil servants, making those bureaucracies subject to the Iron Law of Bureaucracy

Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy states that in any bureaucratic organization there will be two kinds of people: those who work to further the actual goals of the organization, and those who work for the organization itself. Examples in education would be teachers who work and sacrifice to teach children, vs. union representative who work to protect any teacher including the most incompetent. The Iron Law states that in all cases, the second type of person will always gain control of the organization, and will always write the rules under which the organization functions.

and the Iron_Law_of_Oligarchy^WP

Any large organization, Michels pointed out, is faced with problems of coordination that can be solved only by creating a bureaucracy. A bureaucracy, by design, is hierarchically organized to achieve efficiency—many decisions have to be made daily that cannot efficiently be made by large numbers of people. The effective functioning of an organization therefore requires the concentration of much power in the hands of a few. Those few, in turn—the oligarchy—will use all means necessary to preserve and further increase their power.

Vesting all of that power in the President when government controls many functions and aspects of people's daily lives is dangerous, yet not vesting that power in the President essentially creates bureaucracies that are unaccountable and uncontrollable.

Hell, the CIA and the State departments essentially declared war on Bush Jr. For Obama, having his directives ignored is better than having some of the agencies that are nominally in his control working for his downfall.

ETA: the solution is simple: devolve power down to the local level as much as possible, reduce the size and scope of the Federal government, restore to the Presidency the full control of the Executive branch. Now government is more accountable, less amenable to capture by bureaucracy, and more likely to deliver the results that any particular person wants, at least within the geographic area in which that person lives.

 

[gnome]

How many requests were there during the GWB era?

Exactly. The total number is useless if not given the number of requests they were in response to.

 

[boyntonstu]

Exactly. The total number is useless if not given the number of requests they were in response to.

"Obama specifically directed agencies to stop using that exemption so frequently,"


Ask Obama why he thought that the number was too high

 

[Paranormal Inquirer]

I'm afraid the news gets worse: http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/03/16/obama/index.html

 

[Praktik]

A more useful direction for this line of inquiry is to remove the analysis of the individual here and replace it with a systemic analysis.

Can we envision a Presidency of either party curtailing expansions of power handed down to him/her by their predecessors?

As long as people tackle this issue with Bush this or Obama that they're going to be missing the forest for the trees and ensuring the continued entrenchment of a systemic expansion of executive power.

 

[Kestrel]

How many requests were there during the GWB era?

A good question considering that the fiscal year in question started on October 1, 2008. The Bush administration was in charge for almost four months of this fiscal year.

 

[boyntonstu]

A good question considering that the fiscal year in question started on October 1, 2008. The Bush administration was in charge for almost four months of this fiscal year.

Again:

"Obama specifically directed agencies to stop using that exemption so frequently,"


Ask Obama why he thought that the number was too high.

Why does your thinking and logic trump Obama's?

 

[Kestrel]

Again:

"Obama specifically directed agencies to stop using that exemption so frequently,"


Ask Obama why he thought that the number was too high.

Why does your thinking and logic trump Obama's?

How could Obama's directive change FOIA requests that had been rejected before Obama took office?

 

[boyntonstu]

How could Obama's directive change FOIA requests that had been rejected before Obama took office?

Your think that Obama ordered his agency heads to retroactively change their rejection policies?


I don't think so.

 

[A'isha]

Wait, if Obama specifically directed that his agency heads be more open than they were during the Bush Administration, and those agency heads aren't following his directions, how does that translate into "Obama is more secretive than Bush"?

 

[gnome]

See, they were being 175% more secretive than Bush, but he asked them to cool it down a bit so they're only 150% more secretive.

Still. Tell me the comparative RATE of refusal and I'll be willing to judge.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

Again:

"Obama specifically directed agencies to stop using that exemption so frequently,"

And you don't see a contradiction between this statement and the title you gave this thread?

And frankly internal decision-making issues aren't what I think has to be included in transparency in government.

But you're right. Dubya was entirely open about his process: he follows his gut, refuses to entertain advice of anyone knowledgeable--and he listens to the voices in his head (his "heavenly father").

The fact is, this has been one of the most transparent governments we've had in a long time (WH and Congress). You can go on-line and see where the stimulus money is going, for example. And the legislative process has probably never received the scrutiny it has this year, especially wrt the healthcare reform bill.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

See, they were being 175% more secretive than Bush, but he asked them to cool it down a bit so they're only 150% more secretive.

Still. Tell me the comparative RATE of refusal and I'll be willing to judge.

I'd go even farther. The nature of the requests also matters.

If people like Birthers are submitting a great many requests for internal administration documents, those are requests that should be refused. If a greater percentage of the requests are nut-job requests, then it wouldn't even matter if the rate were much higher.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

Wait, if Obama specifically directed that his agency heads be more open than they were during the Bush Administration, and those agency heads aren't following his directions, how does that translate into "Obama is more secretive than Bush"?

It's what Orwell called doublespeak.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

Your think that Obama ordered his agency heads to retroactively change their rejection policies?


I don't think so.

Swing and a miss!

I think you completely misread what Kestrel just said.

 

[332nd]

"Obama specifically directed agencies to stop using that exemption so frequently,"


Ask Obama why he thought that the number was too high

Wait... What? His directing the agencies to stop using the exemption and tell the people what they want to know, means he's more secretive than Bush?

Again:

"Obama specifically directed agencies to stop using that exemption so frequently,"


Ask Obama why he thought that the number was too high.

Why does your thinking and logic trump Obama's?

Read the bolded and then your title again.

ETA:

Your think that Obama ordered his agency heads to retroactively change their rejection policies?


I don't think so.

HOLYCRAPWTFBBQ!?!?!?!

 

[Dorian Gray]

What is your gender? What is your religion? What color hair do you have?

Since I asked you three questions and Redtail asked you two, you're 150% more secretive since yesterday. What's the story there, Captain Secretpants? Huh? What are you hiding, you furtive coverup machine!??

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

What is your gender? What is your religion? What color hair do you have?

Since I asked you three questions and Redtail asked you two, you're 150% more secretive since yesterday. What's the story there, Captain Secretpants? Huh? What are you hiding, you furtive coverup machine!??

Exactly!

You left off: Why won't you publish your birth certificate on-line?