Merged Obama enters GZ Mosque debate

[Chaos]

Yes. This is a concern voiced by bigots and extremists.

I dunno.

It´s certainly a valid concern that anti-muslim extremist might be attracted by the mosque - you know, to "exercise their constitutional rights" to make the mosque´s visitors´ lives as uncomfortable as possible.

And I can understand if New Yorkers don´t want that sort of people harassing other law-abiding New Yorkers and making their city look like a haven of bigots and extremists.

 

[The Charnel Expanse]

There are these people called Security Guards. I'm not a fan of them, myself, but I can see how they could come in handy in such a situation.

 

[Cleon]

What you really mean is that you don't oppose this particular mosque because you believe that the imam has said the appropriate things, and is not a radical.

If Redtail "really" means that, then why did he say "yes?" Or did you just jump the gun a bit?

 

[leftysergeant]

So really, those arguments are just so much eyewash. What you really mean is that you don't oppose this particular mosque because you believe that the imam has said the appropriate things, and is not a radical. So let's debate that part, not the first amendment.

The First Ammendment is the only issue.

The people most opposed are just worthless bigots and morons being stirred up by the ranting right radio. They don't matter. Choosing a different site, even were it feasible, and it may not be, woulkd be to allow bigots a victory.

The terrorists, thus, win.

 

[I Am The Scum]

It´s certainly a valid concern that anti-muslim extremist might be attracted by the mosque

Can you please demonstrate that this is a valid concern?

I don't know if you were being facetious in this post. In any case, can anyone else validate these concerns that extremists will be attracted to the area? This claim has been made several times without any justification.

 

[rwguinn]

I can't help but wonder why it is that the Librulz here scream about our lack of sensitivity to the cultures of others, and scream like hell when their lack of sensitivity to our culture is raised.
The building of the Mosques is not a freedom of/from religion thing. It merely has the appearance of insensitivity--as in "Up yours, America!"

 

[thaiboxerken]

My point is that all the arguments in favor of the mosque raised by its defenders would still apply--freedom of religion, private property rights, other sleazy businesses in the area--and yet more people, like you, Thunder and TBK would oppose it.

No, I wouldn't. But if they decided to build a terrorist training camp, I'd oppose that.

 

[elbe]

The building of the Mosques is not a freedom of/from religion thing. It merely has the appearance of insensitivity--as in "Up yours, America!"

Does it? From my understanding an existing mosque is ill suited to handle it's congregation so they're building a larger facility - with community center, probably to try to ease tensions. Should they just screw over the local muslim population who wants a place to worship?

 

[thaiboxerken]

I can't help but wonder why it is that the Librulz here scream about our lack of sensitivity to the cultures of others, and scream like hell when their lack of sensitivity to our culture is raised.

Freedom of religion is part of our culture. By opposing this mosque being built, YOU are lacking sensitivity to OUR culture. The USA culture is not just made up of Christians.

 

[A'isha]

I can't help but wonder why it is that the Librulz here scream about our lack of sensitivity to the cultures of others, and scream like hell when their lack of sensitivity to our culture is raised.
The building of the Mosques is not a freedom of/from religion thing. It merely has the appearance of insensitivity--as in "Up yours, America!"

Ah, yes, the old "If you don't tolerate intolerance, then you're just as intolerant!" canard.

Of course, it only has the appearance of a "lack of sensitivity to [y]our culture" if your "culture" is willful ignorance of the various clashes within Islam and bigotry in ascribing (solely because they're both members of the 2-billion-strong world population of those who call themselves by the blanket term "Muslims") the actions and motivations of extremists to people who have been subject to brutal oppression and persecution by those exact same extremists.

 

[Cleon]

I can't help but wonder why it is that the Librulz here scream about our lack of sensitivity to the cultures of others, and scream like hell when their lack of sensitivity to our culture is raised.
The building of the Mosques is not a freedom of/from religion thing. It merely has the appearance of insensitivity--as in "Up yours, America!"

Your implication is that there is some sort of separation between "Muslim" and "American." This is completely false, and should be rejected out of hand.

 

[Taarkin]

I can't help but wonder why it is that the Librulz here scream about our lack of sensitivity to the cultures of others, and scream like hell when their lack of sensitivity to our culture is raised.
The building of the Mosques is not a freedom of/from religion thing. It merely has the appearance of insensitivity--as in "Up yours, America!"

Actually, even a cursory glance at the issue would reveal that it does NOT have the "appearance of insensitivity--as in "Up yours, America". In the future, please give an issue at least a cursory glance before mashing the post button if you want to avoid making more wrong statements.

 

[Thunder]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100817/pl_nm/us_usa_mosque

NY's Governor is again making waves. Supposedly, there have been discussions with the developer to get the Mosque built somewhere else.

This can be views two ways:

#1. caving to racists and extremists, who will NEVER be satisfied with this big Mosque being built anywhere in New York City.

#2. maybe we should just move it 10 block away. that way the bigots and extremists will have ZERO legs to stand on. and if they still want to block it, than we will know who we are truly dealing with.

part of me wants to fight this till the end, as a battle between true American values vs. bigots and haters. but the other part of me wishes this issue would just go away, so we can deal with more important matters.

..but maybe this IS the most important matter of our day. how we treat minority religions in this country.

 

[Thunder]

I can't help but wonder why it is that the Librulz here scream about our lack of sensitivity to the cultures of others,

this issue is about private property rights and freedom.

these used to be the founding principles of the Libertarians, who many GOPers claim to be. I guess, no more.

 

[Neally]

The "mistake" of pissing off people who have an irrational fear, hatred, and/or distrust of Muslims.

That's the thing about the people whining about being called "bigots." Well, sorry to say, that's about the size of it: only two basic lines of argument have been presented. One associates all of Islam with 9/11. That's bigotry, plain and simple. The other one, that Brainster has been pushing, is that it might "offend" people. Who will it offend? Well, the people who associate all of Islam with 9/11.

The arguments against the mosque either boil down to bigotry or saying that the Muslims should placate the bigots. I find these arguments...unconvincing. (The MA will not permit me to post my full reaction.)

Give the bigot thing a rest. Nearly 70% of the people have a problem with a mosque being located there.

Not a concern based on reason, logic, or evidence. Extremists will not be visiting this mosque. Extremists view the people building this mosque as their enemy.

A muslim mosque "close" to ground zero might attract extremists? How? What about Mosques in Nashville or Gainesville?

Oh I don't know, maybe if a radical Imam called upon other radicals to join their mosque as a sign of victory there in the death of thousands of infidels...

Yes, we can't be too careful or anything, because the risk of radical Islamic fundamentalist extremists like the Wahhabist Sunni Muslims who planned and carried out the 9/11 attacks being attracted to a Sufi-led mosque because it's near Ground Zero is right up there with the risk of raging Neo-Nazi thugs being attracted to a synagogue because it's in Nuremberg.

It might be good to read the thread before throwing out irrelevant sarcastic comments.

Yes. This is a concern voiced by bigots and extremists.

Again, give the bigot and extremists thing a rest. Apparently everyone that has a different opinion than you is a bigot and extremist including Reid and 70% of the rest of the country.

It's been interesting to watch the scrambling of the mosque opponents in this thread.

"It sullies the sacred ground of GZ!"
"But the porn shops don't sully the sacred ground?"
"Well they don't advocate terrorist attacks on the US!"
"The Muslim sect in the thing is not the same that carries out terrorist attacks"
"But they haven't repudiated the attacks"
"Actually, the leader of the group DID repudiate the attacks"
(someone forgot to ask - are the owners of the sex stores on record as repudiating the attacks? That requirement only applies to muslims)

It's very clearly desperation. That doesn't even include Nealy's attempt to use the court case in Florida, which was thoroughly demolished as being not relevant.

And the other side:
"Everyone that isn't in favor of the mosque is a bigot and extremist".
Oh and the court case was in Texas, not Florida, and it is relevant to the point that Flores claimed his ability to act on his beliefs was substantially burdened by the denial of the proposed addition which the court rejected.

 

[Thunder]

Give the bigot thing a rest.

most of the vocal opponents of the Mosque have only given bigoted and extremist reasons to oppose it.

there is not ONE rational or logical reason to oppose this mosque. not one.

 

[Cleon]

Give the bigot thing a rest.

Only when it stops being accurate.

Nearly 70% of the people have a problem with a mosque being located there.

Is bigotry more acceptable when the majority agrees with it? For me, it just makes it that much more frightening.

Oh I don't know, maybe if a radical Imam called upon other radicals to join their mosque as a sign of victory there in the death of thousands of infidels...

Well, except that the Imam is hardly a radical. Which you would have known if you'd bother reading about the subject before forming an opinion.

Irony exemplified:

It might be good to read the thread before throwing out irrelevant sarcastic comments.

Yeah, no kidding.

 

[Taarkin]

Give the bigot thing a rest.

I will, as soon as the bigots give their bigotry a rest

 

[nchammer326]

I can't help but wonder why it is that the Librulz here scream about our lack of sensitivity to the cultures of others, and scream like hell when their lack of sensitivity to our culture is raised.

Because these conservatives whine about how political correctness is destroying America and then pull the same crap.

It's apparently a bad thing to refer to black people as "African-American," but suddenly we can't offend the sensibilities of people who see Muslims as terrorists.

 

[Thunder]

why aren't the Conservatives and Republicans coming out on the side of private property rights and freedom of religion?

Are they fare weather Libertarians? Sure looks that way now.