Merged Obama enters GZ Mosque debate

[The Charnel Expanse]

Bush 1....or Bush 2?

You know, cause, Bush 1 was always known as a bit of an Arabist.

Bush 2 ^article

 

[Thunder]

Harry Reid's cowardice on this issue is truly disgusting. Nobody who pays attention would ever accuse him of being a man of integrity, but this is truly pandering to the lowest common denominator.

pandering to the mob, in order to save one's job.

that's a true politician for ya.



though, if he wins in November by 1 percentage point, and then "clarifies" his position on this issue so that he is firmly on the side of Freedom of Religion, I might give him a pass.

maybe. maybe not.

probably not. I don't believe in throwing the Bill of Rights under the bus in the name of the "greater good" of Democratic control of the Senate.

 

[hgc]

Reid is in a close race with a Tea Bag Loon.
I will give him a pass on this one.
And where do you read he is likely to be relected.The Nevada race is a toss up?
You are aware there is good chance the Dems will lose the congress in November?

Blessed with this particular loon, Reid's numbers have been moving in the right direction, and he's moved into the lead.

I'm aware there's a good chance the Dems will lose the House. The Senate they hold onto for another 2 years. Then we'll see...

 

[UTLonghorn]

The supporters of this project have become so blinded in their belief that not only is the Mosque good and noble, but that nobody could possibly oppose it for reasons other than base ones.

The problem is that I haven't heard any reason for opposing the mosque other than the base ones, which are not legitimate at all. And I don't necessarily think the mosque itself is "good and noble", just as I don't see the construction of Baptist church across from my house as being good and noble, but I don't have any legitimate reason to oppose it being built.

 

[hgc]

The supporters of this project have become so blinded in their belief that not only is the Mosque good and noble, but that nobody could possibly oppose it for reasons other than base ones.

At long last! After 6 pages of this thread and 15 pages of the ADL thread, Brainster is about to clue us in. He's about to tell us a non-base reason for opposing this mosque! At last, the scales will fall away from my eyes. I will no longer be blinded by belief.

Well? What is it, Brainster? What's the reason to oppose this mosque?

 

[Neally]

Let the Pope actually stop hiding pedophiles and you'll have a point.

You missed the point and avoided the question.

when all Reverends & Bishops from Lutheran Churches repudiate the bigoted and hateful writings of one Mr. Martin Luther, then we can ask all Immam's to repudiate 9-11 and all Muslim terrorists.

And all Calvinist Bishops and Ministers too.

I was referring to the one specific Imam that would potentially be in charge of the ground zero location. Now, how about that Reid question?

 

[The Charnel Expanse]

I was referring to the one specific Imam that would potentially be in charge of the ground zero location. Now, how about that Reid question?

Refer to the link I posted a few messages up.

 

[Travis]

Let the Imam repudiate the 9/11 bombings and all Muslim terrorists and that would make me more comfortable with it. Have you heard him do so?

Why should he have to? Unless you have any evidence he is connected to that crime asking that of him is very inappropriate.

The land is private. It is zoned correctly. The building has been deemed to not be historical. If someone wants to build any type of religious structure there I say let them. If this offends some people then **** them!

 

[Travis]

Nice little article from yesterday.

Islam in Two Americas

NY TIMES
By ROSS DOUTHAT
OP-ED COLUMNIST
August 15, 2010

There’s an America where it doesn’t matter what language you speak, what god you worship, or how deep your New World roots run. An America where allegiance to the Constitution trumps ethnic differences, language barriers and religious divides. An America where the newest arrival to our shores is no less American than the ever-so-great granddaughter of the Pilgrims.

But there’s another America as well, one that understands itself as a distinctive culture, rather than just a set of political propositions. This America speaks English, not Spanish or Chinese or Arabic. It looks back to a particular religious heritage: Protestantism originally, and then a Judeo-Christian consensus that accommodated Jews and Catholics as well. It draws its social norms from the mores of the Anglo-Saxon diaspora — and it expects new arrivals to assimilate themselves to these norms, and quickly.

These two understandings of America, one constitutional and one cultural, have been in tension throughout our history. And they’re in tension again this summer, in the controversy over the Islamic mosque and cultural center scheduled to go up two blocks from ground zero.

The first America, not surprisingly, views the project as the consummate expression of our nation’s high ideals. “This is America,” President Obama intoned last week, “and our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakeable.” The construction of the mosque, Mayor Michael Bloomberg told New Yorkers, is as important a test of the principle of religious freedom “as we may see in our lifetimes.”

The second America begs to differ. It sees the project as an affront to the memory of 9/11, and a sign of disrespect for the values of a country where Islam has only recently become part of the public consciousness. And beneath these concerns lurks the darker suspicion that Islam in any form may be incompatible with the American way of life.

This is typical of how these debates usually play out. The first America tends to make the finer-sounding speeches, and the second America often strikes cruder, more xenophobic notes. The first America welcomed the poor, the tired, the huddled masses; the second America demanded that they change their names and drop their native languages, and often threw up hurdles to stop them coming altogether. The first America celebrated religious liberty; the second America persecuted Mormons and discriminated against Catholics.

​

I recommend reading the full thing. I am proudly part of the first American and I loathe the second America.

 

[Thunder]

I was referring to the one specific Imam that would potentially be in charge of the ground zero location.

Give me ONE good reason why this Immam should be asked to repudiate 9-11.

 

[nchammer326]

Let the Imam repudiate the 9/11 bombings and all Muslim terrorists and that would make me more comfortable with it. Have you heard him do so?

I assume you're talking about Feisal Abdul Rauf. He has condemned the 9/11 attacks.

www . islamfortoday. com /60minutes. htm

Bradley: What would you say to people in this country who, looking at what happened in the Middle East, would associate Islam with fanaticism, with terrorism?

Faisal: Fanaticism and terrorism have no place in Islam. That's just as absurd as associating Hitler with Christianity, or David Koresh with Christianity. There are always people who will do peculiar things, and think that they are doing things in the name of their religion. But the Koran is... God says in the Koran that they think that they are doing right, but they are doing wrong.

 

[Thunder]

I assume you're talking about Feisal Abdul Rauf. He has condemned the 9/11 attacks.

www . islamfortoday. com /60minutes. htm

not good enough!!

he has to do it again, while eating pork rinds and drinking a can of Milwaukee's Best.

.....while watching porn....and makin love to a Jewish woman...and burning a copy of the Koran.

then...maybe then....we shall accept him. but not his filthy Monkey-worshipping Mosque!!

 

[thaiboxerken]

You missed the point and avoided the question.

Really? Did the Imam support the 9/11 attacks? Does he speak for all Muslim sects, or for that matter, all Muslims?

 

[Darth Rotor]

I see no debate. I see only baseless accusations formed out of bigotry and irrational fear.

Given that this is what you are looking for, of course you found it.

Nice little article from yesterday.

The first America celebrated religious liberty; the second America persecuted Mormons and discriminated against Catholics.​

​

I recommend reading the full thing. I am proudly part of the first American and I loathe the second America.

You live in both. Such is life.

 

[linusrichard]

Let the Imam repudiate the 9/11 bombings and all Muslim terrorists and that would make me more comfortable with it. Have you heard him do so?

Yes. In his most infamous and controversial statement, he called 9/11 a crime. He's said terrorism has no place in Islam.

So are you more comfortable with it now?

 

[Thunder]

Really? Did the Imam support the 9/11 attacks? Does he speak for all Muslim sects, or for that matter, all Muslims?

Osama bin Laden speaks for all Muslims. Didn't you get the memo from Lumberg?

 

[thaiboxerken]

GOP decided to rally the bigotted base of their party. Meanwhilel, Reid panders to the same crowd.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/17/us/politics/17mosque.html?src=me

 

[332nd]

The mind-readers around here to the contrary, I can't imagine why everybody thinks of this issue solely in political terms. For the record, once again, I doubt if this will have any significant impact on the elections in 2010 and 2012. It's a nothing issue as compared to the economy.

The supporters of this project have become so blinded in their belief that not only is the Mosque good and noble, but that nobody could possibly oppose it for reasons other than base ones. Dudalb is so far around the bend that he thinks Harry Reid is only opposing it to get reelected, and to top it off, he refuses to condemn Reid because there is a higher calling, that of beating a tea party candidate.

Skepticism no, cynicism yes.

What's the reason that isn't base?

 

[Kestrel]

Keith Olbermann has a bit to say about the Ground Zero Mosque.

 

[Brainster]

What's the reason that isn't base?

Thunder supports it.

Let's switch it around, shall we? Suppose the mosque was being built by a radical Wahhabist imam, who had celebrated the attacks on 9-11 and who admitted that his goal was to erect a monument to the terrorists. Would you oppose it then?