Obama: Enemy of Humanity

[Marc39]

great posts DR,

less-so you Marc...

Coming from you?

 

[Marc39]

Translation:

I, Marc39, just got PWNED again.

DR

Translation: You lost the election, Mr. Pretend Prime Minister of Turkey.

 

[Praktik]

Turkey is not "truly a democracy" It's also becoming radicalized by Muslim extremists who have contributed to the climate of pervasive anti-Americanism that just might have some link to its relations with the US.

Your opinion of their government character is largely irrelevant to the point that allowing the US to launch its war from Turkish territory would go against a public that polled 90% against such an option.

To me, it sounds to me like you would have preferred an authoritarian system there anyway since it would have been easier to ignore the will of the people and enact a policy the entire country opposed.

My larger point, which was unaddressed by you: the Turkish people did not want to participate in the war, so the government deciding not to do so was appropriate.

Are you suggesting the government should have ignored the will of the people?

 

[Marc39]

Your opinion of their government character is largely irrelevant to the point that allowing the US to launch its war from Turkish territory would go against a public that polled 90% against such an option.

Try to get a handle on the fact that Turkey is pervasively anti-American, which has been influencing its foreign policy.

Then, try to grasp that "true democracies" recognize freedom of speech, which Turkey does not.

 

[Praktik]

What I find most curious about Marc's disdain for the Turkish situation is how American-centric it is.

How would he and others of his ilk react to a foreign power and ally demanding US assistance in a war, support that over 90% of America polls as staunchly against giving? If the politicians went ahead and gave the support, would he have any issue with a foreign power inducing American government actions that the American public was united firmly against?

 

[Praktik]

Try to get a handle on the fact that Turkey is pervasively anti-American, which has been influencing its foreign policy.

Then, try to grasp that "true democracies" recognize freedom of speech, which Turkey does not.

So what are you saying then, that the Turkish government should have ignored their public and supported the US because the rabble was too irrational and should thus be ignored?

And if you're critical of their democracy, why are you advocating for them to have taken a profoundly anti-democratic position?

 

[Marc39]

So what are you saying then, that the Turkish government should have ignored their public and supported the US because the rabble was too irrational and should thus be ignored?

And if you're critical of their democracy, why are you advocating for them to have taken a profoundly anti-democratic position?

Turkey is not a democracy, so, it's moot.

Try publically criticizing the Turkish government or anything pertaining to Turkish society or culture and see what happens. Being inside a Turkish jail is one of life's more unpleasnt experiences.

 

[Praktik]

Turkey is not a democracy, so, it's moot.

Try publically criticizing the Turkish government or anything pertaining to Turkish society or culture and see what happens. Being inside a Turkish jail is one of life's more unpleasnt experiences.

No it isn't moot. Even non-democratic nations need to take public opinion into account. If the irrational anti-american rabble get too enraged over a government they see as deaf to the entire country who polled over 90% against supporting an American war, then that could spell trouble in the next election - or in a different non-democratic context, destabilizing protest marches and public shaming for the leaders responsible.

The government went along with the will of the people. You are criticizing them for doing that.

Why do you hate the will of the people? Should US allies act in US interests all the time, regardless of their public opinion?

And if so, should America ignore its own public when foreign powers come calling?

Answer these last two questions directly Marc.

 

[Thunder]

Turkey is not a democracy, so, it's moot.

Try publically criticizing the Turkish government or anything pertaining to Turkish society or culture and see what happens.

Israel's FM wants to make it punishable with imprisonment and loss of the right to vote to publicly remember the tragedy of the 800,000 exiles Palestinians during the 1948 war.

 

[Praktik]

well I guess Israel isn't a democracy then.

lol

 

[Thunder]

Then, try to grasp that "true democracies" recognize freedom of speech, which Turkey does not.

see above

 

[Lurker]

I have a theory brewing that there are some that consider conservatism, by definition, patriotic and anything that isn't conservative is automatically tratorous or un-American. Note the teabagger rhetoric or simply this thread where simple criticism of a conservative argument is presented as evidence that the argument is being called unpatriotic.

Liberals are by definition traitors at freeconservatives.com

 

[Marc39]

well I guess Israel isn't a democracy then.

lol

You know zilch about Turkey, so, now, you shift gears to demonstrating equal insight into Israeli society?

 

[Cleon]

Turkey is not a democracy, so, it's moot.

How is Turkey not a democracy? They have free and open elections, universal suffrage, political parties across the spectrum, separation of powers, and so on.

 

[Praktik]

Try to get a handle on the fact that Turkey is pervasively anti-American, which has been influencing its foreign policy.

Then, try to grasp that "true democracies" recognize freedom of speech, which Turkey does not.

Do you find that belittling the intelligence of those you're arguing with results in a better discussion?

I would prefer it if you could refrain from such a tone in the future - the board 'll be better for it.

 

[Thunder]

Lets get something clear, true "Liberal Democracies" have strong laws supporting freedom of speech, religion, dissent, etc.

just being a democracy don't mean **** as far as rights and freedoms goes.

 

[Thunder]

How is Turkey not a democracy? They have free and open elections, universal suffrage, political parties across the spectrum, separation of powers, and so on.

Turkey is a Muslim country, so it can't be a democracy. Don't you get it?



Only a Muslim country that was invaded by the USA can become a true democracy.

 

[Praktik]

Lets get something clear, true "Liberal Democracies" have strong laws supporting freedom of speech, religion, dissent, etc.

just being a democracy don't mean **** as far as rights and freedoms goes.

Britain has crazy libel laws, which damage their freedom of speech (just ask Simon Singh). So I guess if we take the Marc39 approach, it ain't a democracy either?

 

[Darth Rotor]

Turkey is not a democracy, so, it's moot.

Why are you trash talking a nation that Israel has had security agreements with since the late 1950's? (See "Peripheral Strategy" among other concepts here.)

Try publically criticizing the Turkish government or anything pertaining to Turkish society or culture and see what happens. Being inside a Turkish jail is one of life's more unpleasnt experiences.

Facepalm

.
Criticism of the government does not equal time in jail. Where did you get the idea that it does?

DR

 

[Thunder]

Why are you trash talking a nation that Israel has had security agreements with since the late 1950's?

Israel also had strong military agreements with Apartheid South Africa. Does that mean Israelis should not have condemned Apartheid??

This whole "if its good for Israel" logic really is disgusting.