Obama: Enemy of Humanity

[Praktik]

Do you prefer the turkey drumstick? And, do you like giblet gravy? That's about the extent of any knowledge of turkey. Great avatar

Take the weekend to study US-Turkish relations before you post, again.

Your posts really show no insight, whatsoever.

Obama has been roundly excoriated for not having had greater personal interaction with McChrystal.

Sadly, your insights are nothing more than horse hockey.

Try to get a handle on the fact that Turkey is pervasively anti-American, which has been influencing its foreign policy.

Then, try to grasp that "true democracies" recognize freedom of speech, which Turkey does not.

You know zilch about Turkey, so, now, you shift gears to demonstrating equal insight into Israeli society?

Marc39 - class act all the way!

Anyone else tiring of these kinds of posts?

 

[Marc39]

Britain has crazy libel laws, which damage their freedom of speech (just as Simon Singh). So I guess if we take the Marc39 approach, it ain't a democracy either?

Now, you're suggesting libel is an infringement on freedom of speech?

Your posts are laugh-out-loud comical, though, unintentionally. Thanks, just the same, for the entertainment.

Try criticisng the Turkish government in Turkey. Enjoy a lengthy detainment.

When I was in Israel a few years ago, Israeli Arabs were protesting, carrying "Death To Israel" signs. Nobody would dare try that in Turkey.

 

[Praktik]

Now, you're suggesting libel is an infringement on freedom of speech?

I'm doing no such thing. I was extending your metric to another democracy because in an earlier post it seemed like you were implying that freedom of speech in Turkey was the sole metric with which to determine whether its a democracy or not.

In short, I was playing with your logic. You were not able to grasp that it was a sarcastic post?

 

[Praktik]

How would he and others of his ilk react to a foreign power and ally demanding US assistance in a war, support that over 90% of America polls as staunchly against giving? If the politicians went ahead and gave the support, would he have any issue with a foreign power inducing American government actions that the American public was united firmly against?

Still waiting on this one Marc.

Seems to me you're suggesting that allies should have veto power over the wishes of the public in Turkey. So why should the same not apply to the US?

 

[Cleon]

Try criticisng the Turkish government in Turkey. Enjoy a lengthy detainment.

I'm going to call bull. It took me all of thirty seconds to find this article, critical of the Turkish government, from a Turkish newspaper, by a Turkish reporter.

 

[Marc39]

I'm doing no such thing. I was extending your metric to another democracy because in an earlier post it seemed like you were implying that freedom of speech in Turkey was the sole metric with which to determine whether its a democracy or not.

In short, I was playing with your logic. You were not able to grasp that it was a sarcastic post?

Your post is indecipherable gibberish. You're spinning so fast, you're going to levitate.

Please keep in mind the Membership Agreement and do not use personal attacks to argue your point.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Lisa Simpson

 

[Praktik]

Your post is indecipherable gibberish. You're spinning so fast, you're going to levitate.

More vitriol from the classiest poster on JREF!

 

[Praktik]

please address post #144 Marc.

Should America ignore its public when allies come calling?

 

[Darth Rotor]

I'm going to call bull. It took me all of thirty seconds to find this article, critical of the Turkish government, from a Turkish newspaper, by a Turkish reporter.

Thanks for the link, Cleon.

There are censorhip laws in Turkey specifically targeted, like German censorship laws in re Holocaust denial, at discrete utterances.

IIRC: Burning the Flag, dissing Mustafa Kamal, and insulting "Turkishness."

I poked around a bit, got reminded that Armenian issues of some sorts/genocide charges can result in charges. I also found out that deliberately denigrating, or encouraging people not to serve in, the army is a violation of the penal code in Turkey, which I hadn't realized.

That there are some enforceable limits to 100% free expression is true, but that state of being, unlike Marc's characterization, does not equal "criticize the government and go to jail. " Unless one wishes to likewise characterize Germany as "criticize the government and go to jail" over the Holocaust denial laws, one probably should not likewise criticize the Turks and their sore points carelessly.

@Marc

In so carelessly trashing Turkey like that, please consider the irony that some White Nationalists and neo-Nazis criticize the German government in just that way -- censorship laws on Holocaust denial become "there is no freedom of speech in Germany." That's an abuse of a slippery slope, and at odds with the facts. Do you wish to be included in their intellectual company by making a similarly ignorant charge?

@ parky

You made a fair point, sort of, on the South Africa thing.

Should America ignore its public when allies come calling?

Depends. Whom do you mean by "America" and what is the situation?

If you mean America's government, then the answer is still "sometimes yes, sometimes no, depends upon what is at stake, and what you actually mean by "its public" in this case."

There is no single public opinion in America.

DR

 

[Darth Rotor]

When I was in Israel a few years ago, Israeli Arabs were protesting, carrying "Death To Israel" signs. Nobody would dare try that in Turkey.

I wonder. If Arabs (or Turks) carried "Death to Israel" signs in Istanbul I suspect they would not get arrested.

 

[Marc39]

Obama is not an enemy of humanity. He's merely proving to be just another politician. He made loads of promises that will not be kept and when his tenor as president is up, he will have been a very mediocre president.

 

[drkitten]

Obama is not an enemy of humanity. He's merely proving to be just another politician. He made loads of promises that will not be kept and when his tenor as president is up, he will have been a very mediocre president.

.... which will still put him at least twenty places ahead of W in terms of quality of presidents.

 

[Marc39]

.... which will still put him at least twenty places ahead of W in terms of quality of presidents.

If saying so makes you feel better, then good! Keep repeating that, like a mantra.

 

[Thunder]

Obama is not an enemy of humanity. He's merely proving to be just another politician. He made loads of promises that will not be kept and when his tenor as president is up, he will have been a very mediocre president.

If Obama either:

-passes sweeping health care reform legislation,

-signs a new Start Treaty with Russia, significantly reducing nukes,

-captures or kills Obama Bin Laden

..he will be considered a greater President then Bush could have dreamt of.

and he is on the road to accomplishing at least the first 2.

face it, Bush...was a shrub.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Obama is not an enemy of humanity. He's merely proving to be just another politician. He made loads of promises that will not be kept and when his tenor as president is up, he will have been a very mediocre president.

The word you were hoping to use was tenure or term.

@ drkitten: Your premature adulation is noted. President Obama has massive opportunity to cock it all up. Granted, he'll need to do some pretty gloriusly wrong things to sit in W's company, but there is no end to the things he can get wrong. It's early yet. (And I hope he doesn't, as cocking it up hurts us all). Give him a chance to succeed, or fail, before you pre-write his legacy.

@parky: Bush was a shrub well before he was elected President. IIRC, Molly Ivins gave him that nickname when he was gov, or running for gov, of Texas. Tricky probably knows the details, being an Ivins fan.

DR

 

[Thunder]

@ drkitten: President Obama has massive opportunity to cock it all up. Granted, he'll need to do some pretty gloriusly wrong things to sit in W's company

you MUST be joking.

what did Bush accomplish? the mortgage crisis formed, grew, and took this country down to the brink of destruction on HIS WATCH (just like 9-11).

Afghanistan is in shambles...its still his baby.

what amazing things did Bush do that makes his company any better then Ronald MacDonalds?

oh, and btw, the Dow Jones is back to 10,000....less then 10 months after Obama took office.

 

[Darth Rotor]

you MUST be joking.

what did Bush accomplish?

When you learn how to read, you may learn how to comprehend. Go back and read my post for comprehension, not your knee jerk horsecrap.

It is early yet. Our current President had the opportunity to succeed, and to fail, both in equal and glorious measures. He may also just muddle through. It's been done.

DR

 

[Praktik]

Depends. Whom do you mean by "America" and what is the situation?

If you mean America's government, then the answer is still "sometimes yes, sometimes no, depends upon what is at stake, and what you actually mean by "its public" in this case."

There is no single public opinion in America.

DR

DR - you're always game aren't ya!

Was directed at Marc, who still hasn't replied.

But in this hypothetical, let's pretend that Americans are polling frighteningly united on this one, much like the Turkish public was about involving their country in the mechanics of the attack in 2003.

No need to keep playing on this one though Darth, was just curious if Marc thought that allies should have veto power over the American public, like he thought America should have over the Turkish public in the run up to the war.

 

[Dancing David]

I call true Scotsman!

 

[Oliver]

http://i36.tinypic.com/2w7lkpv.jpg

Obama: Enemy of Hannity