Moderated Obama birth certificate CT / SSN CT / Birther discussion

[JoeB]

I guess this isn't a totally new angle, but it's new (and hilarious) to me.

Titus: What’s important is to realize that being a natural born citizen is based upon the law of nature. Any natural law is based on a law of nature which is revealed by God. And the notion is that no one is accidentally born in any particular nation to any particular parent. You’re not born by accident, you’re born by design. And who’s the designer? Well, God’s the designer. So if you’re born of two parents, that is a mother and father, who are of the same citizenship, then you have been ordained by God to be a citizen of the nation of your parents. That’s why he’s a natural born citizen. So, there’s a design in this that goes all the way back to scriptural principles.

Schneider: Dr. Titus, when this issue has come up time and time again to either the president or his press secretary, they are now referring to the long-form birth certificate that they released in 2011. In your opinion, does the presentation of this long-form certificate, as they have given it and said, ‘See, there’s the evidence,’ in your opinion does this satisfy the matter?

Titus: Well, I think it does if your definition of natural born citizen is that the parents have to be citizens of the United States. Because the form that was produced by the Obama administration indicates that his father was not an American citizen. Where people said, where race usually you put ‘black’ but it has ‘African.’ Well, it shows that he had a national citizenship that was not the United States. So, you don’t need anything more than the evidence that’s already been furnished by the Obama administration themselves. You don’t have to go behind it, you don’t have to determine whether it’s a fraudulent certificate. It says it on its face.

…

Titus: The people have a responsibility here to make sure that the Constitution is followed as it is written. I mean, if people don’t like the natural born citizen requirement, then they can amend the Constitution. I think in this particular case, it demonstrates why the natural born citizen requirement is so important, because I think this president does have a divided loyalty. I think he is more loyal to his African father than he is to the American nation, and I think that’s been well-documented.

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/conte...claims-bible-says-obama-ineligible-presidency

 

[Alferd_Packer]

I guess this isn't a totally new angle, but it's new (and hilarious) to me.

Welcome to birther logic, where up is down, dicta is a holding, holdings are dicta, insinuations are evidence, prima facie means face first (ie. face plant), frivolous is portentous, natural is unnatural, but, black is always black and white is always white.

 

[Lucian]

This is her claim:

Barack Obama and Barry Soetoro are two different people. That the person in office is actually Barry Soetoro, who took the name Barack Obama (she never explained how or why) because two images from Barack/Barry childhood look "different". She never explains what happened to the real Barack Obama.

Didn't he replace the original Paul McCartney in the Beatles?

 

[ArmillarySphere]

This is her claim:

Barack Obama and Barry Soetoro are two different people. That the person in office is actually Barry Soetoro, who took the name Barack Obama (she never explained how or why) because two images from Barack/Barry childhood look "different". She never explains what happened to the real Barack Obama.

He grew up to be Bruce Wayne.

http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=2961

 

[Alareth]

Obama is ineligible to be President because the Bible says he's not a natural born citizen ...

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/conte...claims-bible-says-obama-ineligible-presidency

 

[Sabrina]

*facepalm*

It never ends...

ETA: Who wants to bet this nonsense will continue well past the time when President Obama is no longer President (whether that be one or five years from now)? What will birthers be hoping to achieve then; the invalidation of everything he accomplished with the help of Congress and the Supreme Court (since he didn't do it all alone)?

 

[jhunter1163]

Then he must be a Quantum President!

Schrodinger's President?

Orly's transcript (http://www.scribd.com/doc/79854011/G...12-Hearing-tfb)
is just too funny.

"faster, faster, down lower, lower. . . . "

Thinking about Orly saying that put me off my lunch.

 

[Sabrina]

Eeeewwww.... damn you jhunter!

Now I have to go scrub my brain out with bleach!!!

 

[A'isha]

A regular over at the Fogbow has this as his sig:

"Keep going, keep going -- higher -- no down, down little bit. No up, up, go up... More, more, more, more, more. Stop, stop... Let's go further. Keep going quickly, move, down, down, down, down. Keep going, keep going, keep going. More, more, more. Yes, stop. No, stop, stop, stop." - Orly Taitz, from certified court transcripts

I'm thinking of asking if I can market it as a diet aid. Or an ipecac.

 

[Horatius]

*facepalm*

It never ends...

ETA: Who wants to bet this nonsense will continue well past the time when President Obama is no longer President (whether that be one or five years from now)? What will birthers be hoping to achieve then; the invalidation of everything he accomplished with the help of Congress and the Supreme Court (since he didn't do it all alone)?

I figure it will be incorporated into various tax protestor and/or "Freeman" or "Sovereign Citizen" arguments. It will be yet another reason why tax laws, or any other laws they don't like, are invalid. And just like all their other "reasons", they'll just ignore the fact that it has been shown to be flawed hundreds of times before.

 

[Alferd_Packer]

Well, the three stooges (lawyers for the plaintiffs) have filed their "findings of facts and conclusions of law" and as expected they all totally failed to follow the proscribed format for the filing.

One of Orly's claims is that the Wong Kim Ark decision by SCOTUS is not controlling in this case because it was not a unanimous decision.

Sha also claims that WKA is not valid because: "It was rumored, that Gray's commission and subsequent decision in Kim Ark was done to sanitize Arthur's own lack of eligibility."

 

[Horatius]

Sha also claims that WKA is not valid because: "It was rumored, that Gray's commission and subsequent decision in Kim Ark was done to sanitize Arthur's own lack of eligibility."

Did she really advance the legal theory that court rulings should be subservient to gossip?!?

 

[Arus808]

Well, if you want to take a gander at her "findings of FAct" (and when you read it, you'll be scratching your head at what "fact" that she found), here you go:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/80169403/...posed-Findings-of-Fact-and-Conclusions-of-Law

Love this gem:

It appears that for a period of two years there were two distinct separate individuals: Barry Obama, who attended Noelani elementary school in Hawaii and Barry Soetoro, who attended Assisi school in Indonesia. It is not clear, how these two individuals merge into one person. It is not clear, who came back from Indonesia: Barry Obama or Barry Soetoro. We have no idea, who is residing in the White House: is it Barry Obama or Barry Soetoro? If it is Barry Soetoro, what happened to Barry Obama?

Since when is a court charged with doing YOUR investigation?


Oh and this one is a hoot: Wong Kim Ark isn't precedent, because the Supreme Court wasn't unanimous in their decision:

d. Kim Ark was not an unanimous decision. Chief Justice Melville Fuller and Associate Justice John Harlan dissented, pointing out that since the Declaration of the Independence, U.S. parted from the British Common Law doctrine of jus solis and followed the international doctrine of jus sanguinis, with offspring inheriting the nationality and allegiance of their fathers.

The rest of the filings can be found here:
http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=7178#p336808

 

[KDLarsen]

*facepalm*

It never ends...

ETA: Who wants to bet this nonsense will continue well past the time when President Obama is no longer President (whether that be one or five years from now)? What will birthers be hoping to achieve then; the invalidation of everything he accomplished with the help of Congress and the Supreme Court (since he didn't do it all alone)?

Well, there's already a small subsection of birthers dedicated to keeping Marco Rubio and Bobby Jindal away from their WHITE house. An even smaller part of the NBC-crowd are adamant that Romney isn't eligible either.

I figure it will be incorporated into various tax protestor and/or "Freeman" or "Sovereign Citizen" arguments. It will be yet another reason why tax laws, or any other laws they don't like, are invalid. And just like all their other "reasons", they'll just ignore the fact that it has been shown to be flawed hundreds of times before.

Speaking of SovCits, Walter Fitzpatricks latest filing is a sight to behold. 106 pages of SovCit speak and 196 pages of exhibits.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/80145568/WALTER-FITZPATRICK-III-v-BIVINS-et-al-EDTN-Complaint
http://www.scribd.com/doc/80146244/...v-BIVINS-et-al-EDTN-Exhibits-tned-16702010518

I really feel for whoever has to untangle the legalese in this paragraph:

Walter Fitzpatrick III and his next friend named herein are one of the Sovereign people of Tennessee who's status is defined in Chisolm v. Georgia and 2 Corinthians 5:20 and are not a legal fiction, US INC. vessels, in rem constructive trust, corporate entity or any other artificially constructed fraudulent construct as denoted by the unauthorized spelling of affiant's family name and Walt Fitzpatrick Ill's family name in all capital letters as spelled on State Identification paperwork without explanation. Affiant and Walter Fitzpatrick III reserves all rights in law and equity /commerce and wishes to compel production of documentation specific to the establishment of the jurisdiction of the agent, principal and or agency and agents causing the incarceration of Walter Fitzpatrick III and ascertain the evidence of any constitutionally compliant oath of office, proof of bonding and delegation of authority for or on the record in their possession before a neutral notary officer to verify identity of anyone responding to this writ and representing himself or herself as a government officer or agent prior to the commencement of any proceeding challenging the claims on this writ to avoid implications of "de facto officer doctrine".

 

[erwinl]

Well, there's already a small subsection of birthers dedicated to keeping Marco Rubio and Bobby Jindal away from their WHITE house. An even smaller part of the NBC-crowd are adamant that Romney isn't eligible either.


Speaking of SovCits, Walter Fitzpatricks latest filing is a sight to behold. 106 pages of SovCit speak and 196 pages of exhibits.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/80145568/WALTER-FITZPATRICK-III-v-BIVINS-et-al-EDTN-Complaint
http://www.scribd.com/doc/80146244/...v-BIVINS-et-al-EDTN-Exhibits-tned-16702010518

I really feel for whoever has to untangle the legalese in this paragraph:

Does it talk about two persones or one? It looks about two persons to me (I'm totally non legalese gifted), but the verbs are singular. Wouldn't that invalid the claim?
And Mr. Fitzpatrick being called by his full forename, but once being called Walt? I think that would also invalid the document.

If the rest is the same, it doesn't look too good for mr. Fitzpatrick .

 

[Andy_Ross]

2 Corinthians 5:20

Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God

 

[Alferd_Packer]

All I can take away from that is that WALT's not a boat.

 

[Border Reiver]

Walter Fitzpatrick III and his next friend named herein are one of the Sovereign people of Tennessee who's status is defined in Chisolm v. Georgia and 2 Corinthians 5:20 and are not a legal fiction, US INC. vessels, in rem constructive trust, corporate entity or any other artificially constructed fraudulent construct as denoted by the unauthorized spelling of affiant's family name and Walt Fitzpatrick Ill's family name in all capital letters as spelled on State Identification paperwork without explanation. Affiant and Walter Fitzpatrick III reserves all rights in law and equity /commerce and wishes to compel production of documentation specific to the establishment of the jurisdiction of the agent, principal and or agency and agents causing the incarceration of Walter Fitzpatrick III and ascertain the evidence of any constitutionally compliant oath of office, proof of bonding and delegation of authority for or on the record in their possession before a neutral notary officer to verify identity of anyone responding to this writ and representing himself or herself as a government officer or agent prior to the commencement of any proceeding challenging the claims on this writ to avoid implications of "de facto officer doctrine".

Translation: Walt Fitzpatrick is from Tennessee, and wants to see the ID of the Court Officers before this gong show gets underway. Walt's going to try and make a legal argument that is based on a very flawed understanding of the legal system and will succeed in doing nothing but annoying the court, and any members of the public viewing this with the common sense that is commonly found in boiled potatoes. *

*Not intended to be insulting to that most noble of vegetables.

 

[Mojo]

Translation: Walt Fitzpatrick is from Tennessee, and wants to see the ID of the Court Officers before this gong show gets underway. Walt's going to try and make a legal argument that is based on a very flawed understanding of the legal system and will succeed in doing nothing but annoying the court, and any members of the public viewing this with the common sense that is commonly found in boiled potatoes.

Shouldn't that be "...will succeed in doing nothing but annoying the court, and amusing any members of the public viewing this with the common sense that is commonly found in boiled potatoes"?

 

[KDLarsen]

All I can take away from that is that WALT's not a boat.

A shame really, seing as he's a former US Navy officer