North Korean Soldier killed in China

[Greedo]

Thanks.

... It seemed to me that his information is based on second hand sources and a tour of the main sights in North Korea that numerous journalists and tourists have had....

Wouldn't be wrong about that! Good, quick read nevertheless.

 

[newyorkguy]

It's amazing to me to see that the honor of North Korea is being actively defended against what are presumably seen as unfair attacks.

The statement in the news story in the OP actually stated:

Most likely hungry from the shortage of food that plagues some units of the armed forces in North Korea.

There's nothing about widespread famine. Some posters may have interpreted it that way but I'm sure they did not mean to slander North Korea's good name. (Yes I'm being sarcastic.)

However, given the closed nature of North Korea it is probably very hard to know what shortages if any plague North Korean armed forces. My guess is we will never really know what's going on in NK until the whole thing collapses someday and the real stories begin to come out. (No I'm not being sarcastic.)

 

[fuelair]

I just saw this New York Times Article on a soldier that apparently went into China to try and steal food. I'm wondering how indicative this is that things might get even more desperate there if they can't feed solders.

It seems to me this is some indication that the Great Un could lose control of the military if he can feed the the soldiers. If famine becomes widespread in the military, that is the end for his regime.

They need to tie that special little POS to w post and let the soldiers and the people walk by and each gets to slap his goofy smile off his goofy face till there is no more face to slap. Won't get 'em food, but they will always have that bright spot in their lives to remember as the lights go out.

 

[fuelair]

The Chinese government should feed the solders. Then give them pro Chinese propaganda. Then if there is any conflict between the two countries the NK solders would not fight.

Would it actually matter if they did?

 

[angrysoba]

It's amazing to me to see that the honor of North Korea is being actively defended against what are presumably seen as unfair attacks.

The statement in the news story in the OP actually stated:

There's nothing about widespread famine. Some posters may have interpreted it that way but I'm sure they did not mean to slander North Korea's good name. (Yes I'm being sarcastic.)

However, given the closed nature of North Korea it is probably very hard to know what shortages if any plague North Korean armed forces. My guess is we will never really know what's going on in NK until the whole thing collapses someday and the real stories begin to come out. (No I'm not being sarcastic.)

I don't see anyone defending the honour of North Korea. However if the NYT and others are free to speculate about what they think is going on in North Korea then I think it is best to get as close to the facts as we can.

 

[newyorkguy]

I'm not sure that reputable news sources like the Times or the Guardian are basing their reports on sheer speculation. I'm sure they have many sources. This was in the Guardian last April:

North Korean authorities have ceased distributing regular food rations outside Pyongyang – despite promises that supplies would "return to normal", Daily NK has learned. While last year saw provincial urban centres receive rations from the state's stockpiled war-time reserves, this year there has been very little distribution on offer for those beyond the walls of the "revolutionary capital"...In North Hamkyung, too, there are rumours that even the regional military bases have nothing to eat. Link

 

[angrysoba]

I'm not sure that reputable news sources like the Times or the Guardian are basing their reports on sheer speculation. I'm sure they have many sources. This was in the Guardian last April:

I didn't say "sheer speculation", but I did say "speculation" just as you have said "My guess is we will never really know what's going on in NK until the whole thing collapses someday and the real stories begin to come out."

And, if we are restricting ourselves to the story itself, then this is speculation.

Most likely hungry from the shortage of food that plagues some units of the armed forces in North Korea.

Bear in mind that there is a difference between stating that some units of the armed forces have a shortage of food, and that this particular soldier was motivated by hunger.

However, the point that I responded to and which you seemed to take issue with was here:

I just saw this New York Times Article on a soldier that apparently went into China to try and steal food. I'm wondering how indicative this is that things might get even more desperate there if they can't feed solders.

It seems to me this is some indication that the Great Un could lose control of the military if he can feed the the soldiers. If famine becomes widespread in the military, that is the end for his regime.

I think famine is putting it too strongly (and by that I mean I don't think it accords with the facts, not because I am defending the "honour" of North Korea).

 

[angrysoba]

However, this is interesting:

North Korean soldiers are being issued with lightened packs and other combat gear in an apparent bid to ease the loads carried by troops weakened by malnutrition, according to sources in the reclusive, nuclear-armed state.

The move, which went into effect at the beginning of the year, will reduce the weight of combat packs from 55 to 40 pounds, a civilian worker in Yanggang province, bordering China, told RFA’s Korean Service.

“[North Korean leader] Kim Jong Un has ordered supply departments to reduce the weight of combat equipment, and the Ministry of the People’s Armed Forces is testing the lightened equipment with some units of troops,” RFA’s source said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

North Korea’s 7th Light Infantry and troops attached to the Pyongyang Defense Command have already performed training exercises using the lighter gear in the area of Sunchon city, the source said.

 

[CapelDodger]

As I said, not sure which one it was. I've read articles by so called experts that claimed malnutrition is still widespread and that NK does not have food self-sufficiency. Who really knows what goes on in that country?

I'd have thought that satellite data should provide a good idea of what's being grown and harvested. That much of the enigma can be penetrated. How much wastage there is in storage and distribution is another matter entirely. In such an inflexible system I can well imagine trainloads of grain being delivered to bakeries with no fuel and being dumped on the trackside - over and over again. Meanwhile empty trains drive to military depots where the driver ticks the box marked "baked bread delivered".

Nobody ever got shot for ticking the box. Except the people who got shot for ticking the box. It's like Orwell's 1984 but in a bad way.

 

[ddt]

However, this is interesting:

And if I read this correctly:

Though previous pack weights of 55 pounds excluded items such as weapons, gas masks, and water bottles, “Kim Jong Un’s order to reduce loads means that the weight of the army’s backpack, including gas masks and water bottles, must now be no more than 40 pounds,” a source in North Hamgyong province said.

(emphasis mine), the reduction is more than 15 pounds.

And in the last paragraphs, it claims chronic malnutrition exists in the army - not only among ordinary soldiers but also among NCOs - and that crossings to China to raid for food are quite common.

This paragraph also struck me:

North Korea’s military, the Korean People’s Army (KPA), now numbers about 1.2 million troops, with the number of reserve forces believed to be about 7.7 million, according to the 2015 White Paper issued by the South Korean Defense Ministry last week.

Say what? 9 million soldiers on a population of 25 million? That's every adult male.

And on the photo, it looked like the soldiers were wearing potato sacks. Or rather, that the uniforms had been made for bigger bodies to wear them. Except, of course, for the fattie in the middle.

 

[newyorkguy]

Yes this Radio Free Asia report makes it sound like the New York Times was being fairly cautious when it reported food shortages plague "some units" of the North Korean military.

Korean People's Army troops suffer from chronic malnutrition, an ASIAPRESS report, “Kim Jong-un’s Starving Soldiers,” said last year [2014]. “It is not only the ordinary soldiers but the subordinate officers that are also emaciated, and it is not unusual to see these soldiers visiting ordinary people’s homes, knocking door to door, asking for food,” ASIAPRESS said.

North Korean soldiers regularly cross the frozen Tumen River in the winter months to raid for food and rob villagers in China’s Jilin province, Bloomberg News said on Jan. 14.

And on the photo, it looked like the soldiers were wearing potato sacks. Or rather, that the uniforms had been made for bigger bodies to wear them. Except, of course, for the fattie in the middle.

He's the only one smiling too!

 

[Ziggurat]

It's like Orwell's 1984 but in a bad way.

Wait... there's a good way to be like 1984?

 

[anglolawyer]

Let's invade North Korea! I bet their soldiers are just skeletons in uniforms propped against the battlements like in Beau Geste.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Let's invade North Korea! I bet their soldiers are just skeletons in uniforms propped against the battlements like in Beau Geste.

You first, General.

 

[Polaris]

The Chinese government should feed the solders. Then give them pro Chinese propaganda. Then if there is any conflict between the two countries the NK solders would not fight.

How are ya gonna keep 'em down on the outpost now that they've seen rural China?