North Korean Soldier killed in China

[seayakin]

I just saw this New York Times Article on a soldier that apparently went into China to try and steal food. I'm wondering how indicative this is that things might get even more desperate there if they can't feed solders.

It seems to me this is some indication that the Great Un could lose control of the military if he can feed the the soldiers. If famine becomes widespread in the military, that is the end for his regime.

 

[dudalb]

When the army begins to get hungry, a regime is in trouble. I give you Russia,the spring of 1917.

 

[angrysoba]

Hmmm... I doubt famine is widespread in the army. The famines were in the mid to late nineties. The situation is not the same there now.

 

[newyorkguy]

A bit more to this, from the OP link:

On a cold, clear winter day last month, a North Korean soldier packed a pistol and slipped across the frozen Tumen River into northeastern China. He trekked about a mile to the tiny village of Jidi Tun. Then at dusk he opened fire on two elderly couples, killing all four people. Most likely hungry from the shortage of food that plagues some units of the armed forces in North Korea, he was looking for sustenance, local officials said; some reports said he was drunk.

Here's the original news article from back on January 5th that reported the incident.

China has made a formal diplomatic complaint to North Korea after a soldier fleeing the North killed four Chinese citizens in late December during a robbery attempt, according to a statement on Monday from a Chinese official and news reports from China and South Korea...A report in Beijing News, citing the head of the village, said the four people killed in Nanping were two older couples. The two households were said to have had children working in South Korea, and the parents lived alone. The North Korean soldier broke into the home of a man with the surname Che; ate some of his food; stole 100 renminbi, or about $16; and wounded Mr. Che, the article said. Times news link

Interesting that originally the Chinese authorities did not report the North Korean soldier had been shot, only that he had been arrested. "A Foreign Ministry spokeswoman, Hua Chunying, said at a regularly scheduled news conference...that the North Korean had been detained by Chinese security forces and that the Public Security Bureau in China was “handling the case according to law.” The North Korean soldier had actually been shot by Chinese police and died a day or two later in a Chinese hospital. When the Foreign Ministry said that the case would be handled routinely the soldier involved might have already been deceased.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

If only those Chinese couples had been armed, they could have defended themselves.

 

[angrysoba]

Interesting that originally the Chinese authorities did not report the North Korean soldier had been shot, only that he had been arrested. "A Foreign Ministry spokeswoman, Hua Chunying, said at a regularly scheduled news conference...that the North Korean had been detained by Chinese security forces and that the Public Security Bureau in China was “handling the case according to law.” The North Korean soldier had actually been shot by Chinese police and died a day or two later in a Chinese hospital. When the Foreign Ministry said that the case would be handled routinely the soldier involved might have already been deceased.

A Guardian report on the same day reads:

That night, Chinese soldiers and police shot the soldier in the stomach as he fled to the upper reaches of the Tumen. He remains unconscious in a local hospital.

China’s foreign ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying confirmed the incident at a press briefing on Monday afternoon, adding that China had “lodged representations” to North Korea and “will handle the case in line with relevant laws.”

 

[rjh01]

The Chinese government should feed the solders. Then give them pro Chinese propaganda. Then if there is any conflict between the two countries the NK solders would not fight.

 

[newyorkguy]

A Guardian report on the same day reads:

The report you are citing was from:

Monday 5 January 2015 00.36 EST

The incident occurred on December 28, 2014. This is how the Yonhap News agency reported the incident on Jan. 5, 2015:

A North Korean army deserter has been detained by Chinese authorities for allegedly killing four Chinese citizens in an apparent robbery in the Chinese border city of Helong, a source with knowledge of the incident said Monday.

The gun-wielding North Korean man killed the four Chinese citizens and injured another Chinese person at their homes during an apparent robbery, according to the source. Chinese police and military authorities caught the suspect after a manhunt. The suspect has since been under investigation, the source said. link

By January 5 the "suspect who was being detained" had been dead for close to a week.

 

[angrysoba]

The Chinese government should feed the solders. Then give them pro Chinese propaganda. Then if there is any conflict between the two countries the NK solders would not fight.

This particular soldier most certainly won't fight. He's dead.

 

[angrysoba]

The report you are citing was from:

The incident occurred on December 28, 2014. This is how the Yonhap News agency reported the incident on Jan. 5, 2015:


By January 5 the "suspect who was being detained" had been dead for close to a week.

Fair enough, but my point is that by 5th January it was clear enough that he had been shot, as it was reported in the Guardian.

 

[rjh01]

This particular soldier most certainly won't fight. He's dead.

He also will not bring his mates over for a good feed and re education.

Mates = rest of the army.

 

[newyorkguy]

The Guardian reported a press briefing by the Chinese Foreign Ministry on the afternoon of January 5th in which it was admitted the North Korean soldier had been shot but not that he had died. From the Guardian on Jan. 5, 2015:

The 26-year-old soldier crossed the Tumen river from North Korea into north-eastern China’s Jilin province at about 7.30am on 27 December, South Korea’s Dong-A Ilbo newspaper and Yonhap news agency reported, citing an anonymous source....That night, Chinese soldiers and police shot the soldier in the stomach as he fled to the upper reaches of the Tumen. He remains unconscious in a local hospital...China’s foreign ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying confirmed the incident at a press briefing on Monday afternoon.

In the OP's link to the New York Times story of today, it was reported:

That night, a phalanx of Chinese security forces hunted him down and shot him in the stomach. They ferried him to the hospital here in Jilin Province, about 20 miles from the scene of the killings, but the soldier died a day or so later.

The point I have been trying to make is, the Chinese government is often accused of being less than candid about domestic events. This seems to be an example. That China’s foreign ministry reportedly confirmed a North Korean soldier had been shot by Chinese police on December 28th and remained hospitalized as of Jan. 5th. Today's New York Times [Jan. 29, 2015] reported the soldier had actually died December 29th or 30th, six to seven days before the news conference.

 

[jimbob]

The Chinese government should feed the solders. Then give them pro Chinese propaganda. Then if there is any conflict between the two countries the NK solders would not fight.

China is propping up the DPRK.

It makes sense, because if it implodes, there would be a lot of refugees going North

 

[Greedo]

Hmmm... I doubt famine is widespread in the army. The famines were in the mid to late nineties. The situation is not the same there now.

According to a good deal of the literature on the subject, it might very well be.

 

[angrysoba]

According to a good deal of the literature on the subject, it might very well be.

Which literature?

 

[rjh01]

China is propping up the DPRK.

It makes sense, because if it implodes, there would be a lot of refugees going North

True, but things can change. If NK implodes the Chinese could even use the soldiers to do something with the refugees.

 

[Greedo]

Which literature?

Nothing to Envy by Barbara Demick

Dear Leader by Jang Jin-sung

North Korea Undercover by John Sweeney

for instance.

If I recall correctly, in one of them a report was cited which claimed that it's still common practice in the North Korean countryside to gather grass to provide basic sustenance.

 

[angrysoba]

Nothing to Envy specifically refers to the famine of the 1990s, not to the present day.

On the other hand, most specialists on North Korea do not say that hunger or starvation is on those levels today. Look up Andrei Lankov, for example, who has a piece that says that it is a myth that North Korea is starving today.

 

[Greedo]

Nothing to Envy specifically refers to the famine of the 1990s, not to the present day.

On the other hand, most specialists on North Korea do not say that hunger or starvation is on those levels today. Look up Andrei Lankov, for example, who has a piece that says that it is a myth that North Korea is starving today.

As I said, not sure which one it was. I've read articles by so called experts that claimed malnutrition is still widespread and that NK does not have food self-sufficiency. Who really knows what goes on in that country?

Did you read the book by Lankov? I considered buying it when I saw it in a store, then forgot. Did you like it?

 

[angrysoba]

As I said, not sure which one it was. Anyway, who really knows what goes on in that country?

Did you read the book by Lankov? I considered buying it when I saw it in a store, then forgot. Did you like it?

I've read most of it. I became busy with other things while reading it and haven't returned to it, but I think it was a very good read. I also have Sweeney's book but not read that one yet. It was bought for me, but I was a bit skeptical that Sweeney would be able to bring anything new to light. It seemed to me that his information is based on second hand sources and a tour of the main sights in North Korea that numerous journalists and tourists have had. Demick, Lankov, Myers and a few others do genuine research with a bit less sensationalism attached.