North Korea....what to do what to do

[portlandatheist]

For those of you that are interested:
http://www.linkglobal.org/#

LiNK's Mission

Redefining the North Korea crisis through creative storytelling, while providing emergency relief to North Korean refugees and pursuing an end to the human rights crisis.

 

[Dragoonster]

What to do? How about ignore it? The North Korean situation has absolutely nothing to do with my country or myself.

If there was actual genocide I could be inclined to call for intervention...but my country routinely doesn't strongly intervene in genocidal situations. Ignore Burma...ignore The Congo...ignore Rwanda...and suddenly intervene in North Korea? For internal abuses and strife that are nowhere near leading to the death toll in the priors? Where's the logic of reason for intervention?

 

[portlandatheist]

What to do? How about ignore it? The North Korean situation has absolutely nothing to do with my country or myself.

If there was actual genocide I could be inclined to call for intervention...but my country routinely doesn't strongly intervene in genocidal situations. Ignore Burma...ignore The Congo...ignore Rwanda...and suddenly intervene in North Korea? For internal abuses and strife that are nowhere near leading to the death toll in the priors? Where's the logic of reason for intervention?

What country are you from? Do you stand by your countries decision to ignore Burma, The Congo and Rwanda and want to keep that great tradition going strong? Should other nations follow suit? I disagree with that perspective but at least I understand it.

 

[angrysoba]

What to do? How about ignore it? The North Korean situation has absolutely nothing to do with my country or myself.

If there was actual genocide I could be inclined to call for intervention...but my country routinely doesn't strongly intervene in genocidal situations. Ignore Burma...ignore The Congo...ignore Rwanda...and suddenly intervene in North Korea? For internal abuses and strife that are nowhere near leading to the death toll in the priors? Where's the logic of reason for intervention?

I have no idea who you are or what country you are from, but it sounds very self-centred to say that because it doesn't affect you or your country then the rest of us should ignore it.

Also, I don't understand why ignoring one humanitarian disaster is a good argument for ignoring them all. I would ask you to explain except that given your indifference to the topic I would hate to drag you back to the thread; it's tiresome to read people opining that they have no interest in the topic they are opining on. It's worse to read that because they have no interest no one else should. Please refrain from posting any more on this thread.

 

[Dragoonster]

I have no idea who you are or what country you are from, but it sounds very self-centred to say that because it doesn't affect you or your country then the rest of us should ignore it.

Also, I don't understand why ignoring one humanitarian disaster is a good argument for ignoring them all. I would ask you to explain except that given your indifference to the topic I would hate to drag you back to the thread; it's tiresome to read people opining that they have no interest in the topic they are opining on. It's worse to read that because they have no interest no one else should. Please refrain from posting any more on this thread.

Uh, I have interest because my country (United States btw) has spent trillions of dollars on dozens of wars of choice/ideology rather than wars of stopping-genocide. My vitriol is tied to that. Yes, since my country's economy and status is going way downhill due to warmongering, I think a decision to intervene in yet another country should be carefully considered. And since my country doesn't invade every country engaged in genocide, and since North Korea isn't even doing so, the very question of intervention in that country due to some pressing human-rights issues is rather laughable and incongruous.

But, speaking of self-centered, just how many military interventions have you signed up for frontline warfare for? If these interventions are SO SO important, surely you'd be first in line?

 

[Pardalis]

Why not finance oil exploration in N. Korea?

Nobody will bother about a country that has no economic influence in the global scene. But if there is oil there then the entire western world would blast the N. Korean government out of there faster than you could say, "Saddam who?"

*yawn*

Not that old and tired canard again...

 

[angrysoba]

Uh, I have interest because my country (United States btw) has spent trillions of dollars on dozens of wars of choice/ideology rather than wars of stopping-genocide. My vitriol is tied to that. Yes, since my country's economy and status is going way downhill due to warmongering, I think a decision to intervene in yet another country should be carefully considered. And since my country doesn't invade every country engaged in genocide, and since North Korea isn't even doing so, the very question of intervention in that country due to some pressing human-rights issues is rather laughable and incongruous.

Your country does in fact provide large amounts of food aid, in that case. It also has 30,000 or more troops stationed in South Korea.

Of course you could argue that you don't want food aid sent to North Korea and don't want US servicemen and women stationed in South Korea if ignoring North Korea is what you want.

But, speaking of self-centered, just how many military interventions have you signed up for frontline warfare for? If these interventions are SO SO important, surely you'd be first in line?

"If these interventions..." What interventions am I speaking of?

I am responding to your remark that North Korea is of no interest to you or the United States. I am not talking of intervention I am saying don't be so presumptuous as to say North Korea is of no interest to anyone else and that the situation there should be ignored.

If you actually read the bloody thread instead of climbing up on to your pedestal of sanctimony you would realize that others are talking about such things as the refugee problem which is something that can be done without any kind of military intervention (I have in the past and on this thread rejected arguments for military intervention as unwise and unworkable).

 

[Dragoonster]

What country are you from? Do you stand by your countries decision to ignore Burma, The Congo and Rwanda and want to keep that great tradition going strong? Should other nations follow suit? I disagree with that perspective but at least I understand it.

The US. I don't stand by it and wish it would stop. I wish my country's interventions (if they must be done) were more prioritized to stopping genocide/total-loss-of-life than to politics. Since the vast majority of my country's interventions are of choice and unrelated to the, say, top five human catastrophes in the world at any point, I would much rather we just not intervene anywhere.

As for North Korea specifically, and even without my daft rhetoric, I truly don't see any reason to get involved. NK is as far on the planet from the US as possible, and they don't have ICBMs. And are not abusing their citizens more than a dozen other countries. I'd assume/hope China and SK would be a rather strong deterrent for any of their possible nuclear belligerance. So yeah, I'd ignore it just as I've previously ignored Pakistan and India nukes. It's a regional problem (if a problem at all, does anyone actually think NK is going to nuke SK or something? Does anyone actually think NK's treatment of their citizens equates to Hutus murdering millions of Tutsis?)

 

[Dragoonster]

Your country does in fact provide large amounts of food aid, in that case. It also has 30,000 or more troops stationed in South Korea.

Of course you could argue that you don't want food aid sent to North Korea and don't want US servicemen and women stationed in South Korea if ignoring North Korea is what you want.

Food aid is a canard, we send food to dozens of countries and this has nothing to do with warmongering. And yes, I see no reason to station American forces in South Korea. We have a rather quick reactionary force/multiple carrier fleets to respond to any aggression.

"If these interventions..." What interventions am I speaking of?

I am responding to your remark that North Korea is of no interest to you or the United States. I am not talking of intervention I am saying don't be so presumptuous as to say North Korea is of no interest to anyone else and that the situation there should be ignored.

My original post wasn't just speaking to you. It was speaking to the OP, aka "what to do what to do". I mentioned "interventions" in my first post. If you had a strong objection to that perhaps you should've voiced it in your first reply then rather than saving it for later?

If you actually read the bloody thread instead of climbing up on to your pedestal of sanctimony you would realize that others are talking about such things as the refugee problem which is something that can be done without any kind of military intervention (I have in the past and on this thread rejected arguments for military intervention as unwise and unworkable).

Very good point and yes I did jump the gun.

But I made one post. You replied. I replied to you. Then (now) you replied retroactively to criticize my first post rather than my most recent.

So...why is the welfare of North Korean citizens important (more than at least a hundred other country's citizens) to the United States, or me as a citizen thereof?

 

[psionl0]

*yawn*

Not that old and tired canard again...

If you have come across this idea before then you must know the rebuttal.

 

[Dragoonster]

P.S. Sorry angrysoba and others that I'm being an ass and not paying any attention to the flow and claims of the conversation. I'm kind of very drunk and an angry-eyebrowed polemicist looking for a thread to spew on. I'll shut up now.

 

[angrysoba]

P.S. Sorry angrysoba and others that I'm being an ass and not paying any attention to the flow and claims of the conversation. I'm kind of very drunk and an angry-eyebrowed polemicist looking for a thread to spew on. I'll shut up now.

Alright, I'll take it that you were shooting from the hip and I can somewhat understand why you might. I would just ask you, and caution you, to try to seek out potential allies rather than alienate them with sanctimonious talk.

Take it easy!

 

[Pardalis]

If you have come across this idea before then you must know the rebuttal.

The rebuttal is that China got the most profitable deals for oil in Iraq, not the US, and the same with Afghanistan.

Unless you're trying to argue that the US is fighting wars for China.

And what does that got to do with North Korea again?

 

[ComsatAngel2017]

P.S. Sorry angrysoba and others that I'm being an ass and not paying any attention to the flow and claims of the conversation. I'm kind of very drunk and an angry-eyebrowed polemicist looking for a thread to spew on. I'll shut up now.

Holy Cow, boy, you posted that at 9 in the morning! Tell me there's a time difference at work there ...

This problem came up at a different forum I post on, with various military options being postulated, somewhat blithely disregarding the possible death toll involved.

Given the sheer isolation of North Korea, it's difficult to influence it in any significant way and the only party who seems to have any clout with it at all is China - who would much rather have a starving but stable neighbour than one in a state of collapse with millions of refugees fleeing across the border (I say "influence" because trying to coerce is what NK has apparently been planning and plotting to resist since 1953).

Perhaps HALO containers dropped by overflying aircraft, deploying gold coins/yen notes/dollars/MP3 players loaded with The Beatles/Madonna/Royksopp at 500m above ground zero would work?

 

[Oliver]

Ha! Japan will take care of NK:

Japan says it will shoot down N. Korea rocket over territory

 

[Pardalis]

Do you need to be so loud?

 

[Oliver]

Do you need to be so loud?

 

[bigjelmapro]

Perhaps an approach like that in Syria. Provide weaponry and logistics to the opposition, if this really exists to any extent.

EDIT: And I do realize this goes against the ideas/motivations/etc. of the extreme isolationists out there. Do I care? Not one little bit.

 

[BravesFan]

Is there any internal opposition there? I'm sure there is plenty in the south and in parts of China. But enough to make any sort of dent in the socio-political atmosphere of the north?

 

[McHrozni]

Is there any internal opposition there? I'm sure there is plenty in the south and in parts of China. But enough to make any sort of dent in the socio-political atmosphere of the north?

I watched a video about the extent of opposition in North Korea. It included leaving some anti-government flyers left in a public toilet and some anti-government grafitti under a bridge in the middle of nowhere. Both instances were treated like foreign invasions.

McHrozni