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North Korea fires artillery on the South

Undesired Walrus

Penultimate Amazing
Undesired Walrus
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
11,691
Hate to be the bearer of bad news:

North Korea has fired artillery shells across its western maritime border, prompting return fire from South Korea, officials say.

Dozens of the shells landed on a South Korean island, from which plumes of smoke are rising. At least four soldiers are said to have been hurt.

South Korea has issued its highest non-wartime alert in response.
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Why do we, in times like these, have to put up with regimes like the North Korean? I don't advocate a war on them, because so many innocents will be killed, but ...

Hans
 
... but what. Six party talks have gone nowhere. Bilateral talks reached the same destination. Sanctions? Meh. Any other ideas?
 
SezMe said:
... but what. Six party talks have gone nowhere. Bilateral talks reached the same destination. Sanctions? Meh. Any other ideas?
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Dither around until something nuclear goes off somewhere populated.

Personally I'm hoping son isn't like father. We'll see I guess.
 
Normal Dude said:
Personally I'm hoping son isn't like father. We'll see I guess.
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Seems unlikely. I'm not even sure if the planning and orders for these kinds of attacks come from the very top or from the military leadership. If anything they've gotten more belligerent lately. It's all very opaque though.
 
SezMe said:
... but what. Six party talks have gone nowhere. Bilateral talks reached the same destination. Sanctions? Meh. Any other ideas?
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Sanctions mainly hurts the population. China may be the key. Discuss with China the ramifications of a re-united Korea. China is NK's last, and very reluctant, friend.

Hans
 
I'm not sure I've mentioned it here but my son now lives in Seoul. When I was there a couple of months ago for his wedding:



(aren't they cute?) we took a week vacation to see the sights. One of the most surprising things we encountered was the very strong desire for reunification. I thought it a bit naive (effect of propaganda by the SK government?) but we probably talked to someone about it almost every day. So if that sentiment is real, then getting the Chinese to get NK to the negotiating table would be a great move.
 
Undesired Walrus said:
The world looks to China for leadership.
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Publicly, China's not gonna' do much at all, beyond 'urging calm' and trying to remain neutral.

Unofficially, they're worried as hell. They absolutely don't want war in Korea, particularly with the potential for nukes; and although perhaps are N. Korea's closest ally, it is very reluctant, and done more for purposes of keeping those North Koreans from doing anything too stupid.

I suspect that, behind closed doors, China's sending some very strong messages to the N. Korean leadership...pretty much to the effect that if they do provoke a war, China's going to maintain its neutrality, and not get involved (ie. "We won't help you").

But reunification? Not a chance, at least not under the current N. Korean leadership. "Reunification" implicitly means acceptance of one single government to rule over all of Korea. The N. Korean gov't certainly is never going to agree to give up power; and S. Koreans would never even consider subjecting themselves to N. Korean rule. Reunification, if it happens, will come about in one of two ways: 1) war 2) waiting another 50 years or so, and hoping for some sort of change in the N. Korean gov't that makes reunification practical.
 
SezMe said:
One of the most surprising things we encountered was the very strong desire for reunification. I thought it a bit naive (effect of propaganda by the SK government?) but we probably talked to someone about it almost every day. So if that sentiment is real, then getting the Chinese to get NK to the negotiating table would be a great move.
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The problem with the reunification thing is that S. Koreans always think of reunification in terms of "N. Korea joins us, and our gov't takes over the North". The opposing possibility, that reunification involves the North taking over, never even seems to occur to them...despite the fact that any discussion of reunification will begin with the North's assumption that they're the ones who will be in charge.
 
I hate that many spam on the news Baba Vangas predictions on this topic ''http://lighthead.wordpress.com/2008/09/30/baba-vanga-predictions-2010-5079/'' Like the new world war has began.
 
What exactly is North Korea's goal here? I know there is a popular belief amongst people here that Kim Jong-Il wants to go down in a blaze of glory, but everything I've seen from the Korea to the North is in order to ensure regime survival.

Is this an attempt to isolate themselves and put off talks with their neighbours? 'We don't negotiate with North Korea' might be an attractive statement for them.
 
Undesired Walrus said:
What exactly is North Korea's goal here? I know there is a popular belief amongst people here that Kim Jong-Il wants to go down in a blaze of glory, but everything I've seen from the Korea to the North is in order to ensure regime survival.

Is this an attempt to isolate themselves and put off talks with their neighbours? 'We don't negotiate with North Korea' might be an attractive statement for them.
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Maybe there isn't a goal. Could it just be a case of a fully patriotic artillery commander getting a bit over-twitchy about the South Korean manoeuvres going on opposite his battery? The position they North are taking at the moment is that the South Koreans fired first - well, I suppose they would say that, but perhaps it is a sincere belief.

Edit: It just seems like such a strange thing to do as an official policy. But then, the regime does appear to have some pretty strange ideas, so who knows?
 
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Liberate the people of North Korea, give the NK goevernment a oneway ticket to Den Hague.
 
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