Norm Pratt: Split from: Psychics and Missing People

[Bri]

The only thing I've been able to find is on the biographical page of his website

It doesn't seem to mention any double-blind tests. So, I don't know if any double-blind tests have been done specifically on the use of psychic abilities to find missing people. However, I do know that psychics have been tested using double-blind protocols, and so far none that I know of have ever demonstrated an ability to perform significantly above chance.

So even assuming Rodney is correct that the ability to find missing people cannot be adequately tested (although I see no reason why it couldn't be), I would settle for a psychic proving in a double-blind test that they have any psychic ability before being allowed to work with police to find missing people.

-Bri

 

[Rodney]

So even assuming Rodney is correct that the ability to find missing people cannot be adequately tested (although I see no reason why it couldn't be)

Again, if you have a suggested protocol for testing Norm Pratt or any other psychic detective, let's hear what it is.

I would settle for a psychic proving in a double-blind test that they have any psychic ability before being allowed to work with police to find missing people.

-Bri

Why should a psychic have to proven anything to you, me, or anyone else here before being allowed to work with police to find missing people? Can't the police decide for themselves whether it's worthwhile to use a psychic?

 

[Santa666]

Why should a psychic have to proven anything to you, me, or anyone else here before being allowed to work with police to find missing people? Can't the police decide for themselves whether it's worthwhile to use a psychic?

I believe the idea is that the psychic prove their abilities to ANYONE (under controlled circumstances) before claiming to be able to assist the police with cases.

Given your logic, why not allow the police to use a "talking" llama to help them with cases. Certainly a talking llama has nothing to prove to anyone.



Santa

 

[Ersby]

There was one test of pyschic detective carried out recently. Well, in the last ten years.

Rhetoric in 'pyschic detection', O'Keefe, Alison, Journal of the Society for Psychical Research Vol. 64.1, No. 858

ABSTRACT
This study examined the differences between the account-giving styles of psychic detectives compared with a control group. It was hypothesised that psychics would employ many devices commonly associated with known cold reading strategies, a distinct style of account-giving or 'psychic rhetoric'. Eight psychics and twelve controls examined 3 objects from 3 crimes and were asked for their opinions about the likely characteristics of the offender. Although independent t-tests confirmed that psychics were no more accurate than controls, content analysis confirmed the hypothesis that psychics relied more heavily on a variety of rhetorical devices.

http://www.theparapsychologist.com/pdf/OkeAli00.pdf

edit:

And here's another from 1996, that also describes an earlier experiment from the seventies

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_n1_v20/ai_17849145

 

[Bri]

Again, if you have a suggested protocol for testing Norm Pratt or any other psychic detective, let's hear what it is.

Asked and answered, Rodney. Do you know what Norm Pratt or any other psychic detective actually claims to be able to do and with what rate of success?

Does Pratt actually talk to the dead person in order to locate the body? Can he ask them other questions? What is his explanation for why they can't talk back to him in plain language? For example: Dead people can only provide the first letter of their names because they all have speech impediments, which further explains why I never get a response like "You will find my body inside the abandoned shack 200 feet west of the intersection of US 41 and Highway 6" but instead I can only gather "The places you've already searched were not the right place" and even then I'm usually wrong.

Why should a psychic have to proven anything to you, me, or anyone else here before being allowed to work with police to find missing people? Can't the police decide for themselves whether it's worthwhile to use a psychic?

No, police have no way of determining that it is worthwhile to use a psychic without the psychic having been previously tested.

-Bri

 

[Mr. Stick]

The only thing I've been able to find is on the biographical page of his website:

The offspring of psychic parents, he was born with a veil, the mystic cross and a five-pointed star on his left hand, the traditional markings of a psychic. ........

http://www.alextanous.org/research/biography.php

 

[Rodney]

There was one test of pyschic detective carried out recently. Well, in the last ten years.

Rhetoric in 'pyschic detection', O'Keefe, Alison, Journal of the Society for Psychical Research Vol. 64.1, No. 858



http://www.theparapsychologist.com/pdf/OkeAli00.pdf

edit:

And here's another from 1996, that also describes an earlier experiment from the seventies

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_n1_v20/ai_17849145

Those studies don't address testing an individual psychic detective such as Norm Pratt. What protocol would you establish that would determine whether he can assist the police at an above chance level in missing person cases?

 

[Hardenbergh]

Alex Tanous is discussed in the book, Experiencing the Next World Now by Michael Grosso, Ph.D. He has also been a guest on Coast to Coast AM about the time the book was published in 2004.

Under the heading of "Experimental Studies", beginning with the seventh paragraph. It's about a series of out-of-body experiments reported by the American Society of Psychical Research:

http://www.enotalone.com/article/5705.html

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that Alex Tanous isn't just your average run-of-the-mill "garden variety" psychic.

 

[Rodney]

Asked and answered, Rodney. Do you know what Norm Pratt or any other psychic detective actually claims to be able to do and with what rate of success?

Does Pratt actually talk to the dead person in order to locate the body? Can he ask them other questions? What is his explanation for why they can't talk back to him in plain language? For example: Dead people can only provide the first letter of their names because they all have speech impediments, which further explains why I never get a response like "You will find my body inside the abandoned shack 200 feet west of the intersection of US 41 and Highway 6" but instead I can only gather "The places you've already searched were not the right place" and even then I'm usually wrong.

According to no less an authority than James Randi, it doesn't matter how a psychic obtains information paranormally, as long as (s)he can do that. I realize that you're not convinced that anyone can obtain information paranormally, but the above is just irrelevant quibbling.

No, police have no way of determining that it is worthwhile to use a psychic without the psychic having been previously tested.

-Bri

Ah, so is the all-knowing Bri -- when she becomes Emperor of the Whole Wide World -- going to decree that police departments may no longer use psychics who haven't been tested?

 

[Bri]

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that Alex Tanous isn't just your average run-of-the-mill "garden variety" psychic.

In what way is he different? Did he pass a controlled double-blind test?

-Bri

 

[Bri]

According to no less an authority than James Randi, it doesn't matter how a psychic obtains information paranormally, as long as (s)he can do that. I realize that you're not convinced that anyone can obtain information paranormally, but the above is just irrelevant quibbling.

Correct, in general it doesn't matter HOW a psychic does what he or she claims to do, just that they can do as they claim. However, in this case the reason I asked is because if Pratt is claiming to be able to talk to the dead, it should be possible to devise a test to see if he can really talk to the dead. I simply suggested that if, as you claim, his abilities to find missing people can't be tested (again, I don't know why they couldn't be) then his abilities to talk to the dead could be. So what, specifically, does Pratt claim to be able to do and with what frequency?

Ah, so is the all-knowing Bri -- when she becomes Emperor of the Whole Wide World -- going to decree that police departments may no longer use psychics who haven't been tested?

Correct, yes. And in the meantime, police departments worldwide would be wise to implement a similar standard so as not to waste the taxpayer's money and more importantly their own valuable time and resources.

-Bri

 

[Hardenbergh]

In what way is he different? Did he pass a controlled double-blind test?

-Bri

How long has it been common procedure to conduct controlled double-blind testing on psychics?

 

[Ersby]

Those studies don't address testing an individual psychic detective such as Norm Pratt. What protocol would you establish that would determine whether he can assist the police at an above chance level in missing person cases?

A similar protocol to the one seen in the O'Keefe/Alison experiment. See how he does compared to control guessers.

 

[Bri]

How long has it been common procedure to conduct controlled double-blind testing on psychics?

I don't know, honestly. But I imagine that if a psychic could consistently pass double-blind tests he or she would be far more famous than Alex Tanous, since it would be fairly definitive evidence of psychic ability.

-Bri

 

[sophia8]

"The prediction I will make," said Tanous, "is that a very famous rock star will have an untimely death and this can happen from this moment on.

So that means anytime between 1980 and the heat-death of the universe. So, not many rock stars to choose from then.

I say untimely death because there is something strange about this death, but it will affect the consciousness of many people because of his fame." Without mentioning a name, he added that the star may be foreign-born but living in the United States.

The show was aired on September 8, 1980.

Take your pick. Plenty of these stars have died strange and untimely deaths.

 

[Rodney]

A similar protocol to the one seen in the O'Keefe/Alison experiment. See how he does compared to control guessers.

What if Pratt states that his psychic power is limited to locating missing persons? What would be the protocol for testing that?

 

[Rodney]

Correct, in general it doesn't matter HOW a psychic does what he or she claims to do, just that they can do as they claim. However, in this case the reason I asked is because if Pratt is claiming to be able to talk to the dead, it should be possible to devise a test to see if he can really talk to the dead. I simply suggested that if, as you claim, his abilities to find missing people can't be tested (again, I don't know why they couldn't be) then his abilities to talk to the dead could be. So what, specifically, does Pratt claim to be able to do and with what frequency?

I don't know, but if he can help the police find a body that they could not find after looking for 10 months, isn't that worthwhile?

Correct, yes. And in the meantime, police departments worldwide would be wise to implement a similar standard so as not to waste the taxpayer's money and more importantly their own valuable time and resources.

-Bri

Well, then, I hope you don't become Emperor anytime soon because the police may then be burdened with more unsolved cases . . .

 

[Bri]

What if Pratt states that his psychic power is limited to locating missing persons? What would be the protocol for testing that?

Specifically, what is the process by which Pratt can lead the police to a missing person? Does Pratt give precise locations, or is it always as vague as was suggested by the report? What is his success rate?

-Bri

 

[Bri]

I don't know, but if he can help the police find a body that they could not find after looking for 10 months, isn't that worthwhile?

Only if he could do so consistently. Otherwise, if this example is the best one, no it wouldn't be worthwhile. If we take all of the psychics who have tried to find missing persons and compared with those who were successful (even generously counting this one as a hit, which it isn't) psychics hinder far more cases than they help.

Well, then, I hope you don't become Emperor anytime soon because the police may then be burdened with more unsolved cases . . .

Somehow I doubt that the police would be "burdened with more unsolved cases" by not using psychics, given that there is no evidence of anybody ever using psychic abilities to help find a missing person.

-Bri

 

[Rodney]

Specifically, what is the process by which Pratt can lead the police to a missing person? Does Pratt give precise locations, or is it always as vague as was suggested by the report? What is his success rate?

-Bri

Based on the one case I've heard about, 100%.