Nonbelievers and Buddhism

[Ausmerican]

As far as the popular draw, consider Bruce Lee and the modern day Dr. Jeung who throws people around without even touching them using his understanding of energy human fields (more to electromagnetism...it has consciousness). I would post a link to the YouTube Video, but I haven't posted 15 posts here yet, so I can't......But I'll just tell you the name is "Energie Bubble Demonstratiom" (misspelled like that) put up there by username "klaussh2". The video is from Pathgate Institute in which you can read Dr. Jeung's explanation of energy fields. Dr. Jeung is Lama Dondrup Dorje....I think he could give Randi a run for his money (Million Dollar Challenge) Definitely appeals to atheists.

Bruce Lee would have been one of the first to tell you that there was nothing at all to that human energy field and that a kick was just a kick and a punch was just a punch to use his own words. Also, Lee was an atheist by all accounts, not a buddhist. When asked what his religious affiliation was, he replied "none whatsoever."

 

[NordaVinci]

Yeah, maybe so...but his most popular blockbuster movie, Enter the Dragon, that the masses watch most massively has him as a devout kick-a** Shaolin Temple Monk talking about the "finger pointing at the moon" and "when opportunity presents itself, one does not strike. IT strikes." That "IT" would be the IMMATERIAL ABSOLUTE THATNESS OR SUCHNESS....or IT of Buddhism..........OMMMMMMM

 

[dlorde]

Yeah, maybe so...but his most popular blockbuster movie, Enter the Dragon, that the masses watch most massively has him as a devout kick-a** Shaolin Temple Monk talking about the "finger pointing at the moon" and "when opportunity presents itself, one does not strike. IT strikes." That "IT" would be the IMMATERIAL ABSOLUTE THATNESS OR SUCHNESS....or IT of Buddhism..........OMMMMMMM

.
Of course, that was fiction and Lee was acting a role.

 

[Bikewer]

Yes...Not to derail, but Lee strongly separated his acting from his martial arts, which were extremely pragmatic and devoid of woo. I have his "Tao Of Jeet Kun Do", and no a mention of Chi or any other such nonsense.

 

[NordaVinci]

Very interesting. How did he explain his one inch power punch?

 

[Dancing David]

I'm familiar only with very basic concepts about Buddhism (VERY basic). But I do see it referenced quite a bit, directly, throughout this forum.

Is there a draw to Buddhism for the atheist, non-believer, etc ? If so, specifically why? What is it about Buddhism that speaks to you (regardless of your belief status)?

Thanx in advance for any responses ...

Buddhism as taught by the alleged historical buddha AHB (a surmise from the Pali canon) does not require a belief in gods, spirits or souls.

 

[Dancing David]

I find that a lot of unbelievers will quote Buddhism in reference to other religions ( logic being they do less crazy things, or are more in tune with reality than other religions. ) , but to be honest you can find nutcase buhddists through history as well.

When i look at buhddists, i see nothing more or less attractive about the religion than any others.

Well sure, Jesus was a nice guy too, look what his followers do.

 

[Dancing David]

So most religion is either hard liquor, diet sodas, or poison ... and Buddhism is flavored water with no chaser ?

Okay .... the peaceful and happy thing. I know this might sound utterly ridiculous to ask, but why is peace and happiness such a preference?

What about those of us who are essentially unable to experience peace and happiness without a great effort? IOW, we are always on either side of peace and happiness but rarely find a chair to sit down in when we get there? Is Buddhism the "best path"?

I think it's easy to say that our environment effects our peace and happiness. But what if you "try all environments" that you know to try, and attempt all the mental gymnastics you know to attempt, and go to the "best psychologists, therapists, get the best drugs, etc", but to no avail? Are you just SOL? (I'm speaking hypothetically )

If the Dalai Lama really believes it, I'm out. And I won't say "what he can go do," because it's too obvious ...

The AHB also said "Your milage may vary, if it doesn't work for you, then try something else."

The great revelation of the AHB was this "There is no self (atman)." This leads to the principle of anatta.

So tanha (desire/unbalance) comes from trying to please the self or avoid pain to the self. This leads to more dukka (suffering/imbalance).

Now please not the buddha rejected mortificationa s part of the middle path, the body should be cared for, but not to excess.

the eightfold patha llegedly leads to freedom from clininging to the self.

 

[Trent Wray]

The AHB also said "Your milage may vary, if it doesn't work for you, then try something else."

The great revelation of the AHB was this "There is no self (atman)." This leads to the principle of anatta.

So tanha (desire/unbalance) comes from trying to please the self or avoid pain to the self. This leads to more dukka (suffering/imbalance).

Now please not the buddha rejected mortificationa s part of the middle path, the body should be cared for, but not to excess.

the eightfold patha llegedly leads to freedom from clininging to the self.

Freedom from clinging to self.

Okay master grasshopper . Zen word salad:

If I stop clinging to myself, will I find myself?

And if we lived in an ideal world, wouldn't we all cling to ourselves equally and teach other the same? Since we don't (and won't) all cling or release ourselves, what advantage is there to choosing one over the other? Why not waffle back and forth depending on the moment and situation? Sometimes I will cling to myself, othertimes I won't. Or is it better to pick one over the other and stick with it?

*obligatory loud temple !! gooooongggg !!*

 

[Meadmaker]

If I stop clinging to myself, will I find myself?

No, because there is no "self" to be found.

And if we lived in an ideal world...

We live in the only world there is.

The idea of non-attachment (not clinging to yourself) comes from a simple observation. We are all going to die. If you are really attached to the idea of living, that will bum you out. The Buddha taught that it was not death that bummed you out, but the attachment to the idea of being alive.

(Repeat the above for staying young and for staying healthy. It's not going to happen, so learn to live with it.)

 

[MikeSun5]

I took that to mean that when we die, something of us does indeed go on.

I saw once that the Dalai Lama said that to attain immortality, teach a child something. Kind of a cool concept...

At the same time, Buddhism is still full of silly archaic woo. Claiming Buddhism to be compatible with atheism and citing like 3 paragraphs looks like hopeful confirmation bias to me... If you're looking for comforting words or words that resemble skepticism, those can pretty much selectively be found in any religious texts. Also, meditation and self reflection are fine, but I can do both without the aid of a religion.

Besides, I've never heard people saying, "I'm an atheist... AND a Buddhist."

Of course if that stuff helps you, that's great. I can't say anything about that, but I don't think ANY religions are "completely compatible with atheism."

Very interesting. How did he explain his one inch power punch?

I saw this one: Bruce Lee himself explained that his one inch punch has nothing to do with chi/energy, and everything to do with his stance, muscle strength, and body conditioning. His elbow is bent, and his fist is facing palm-in with his wrist bent, tilting his pointer finger knuckle towards the target. His body is positioned to throw the punch from twisting his torso slightly, while he extends his elbow slightly, snaps his wrist up, and makes contact with the last three knuckles. No magic energie bubble. No magic chi. Just practice and exercise.

The only alternative is to have a goofy assistant that jumps around when you pretend to shoot ions at him with your mind.

 

[Meadmaker]

Besides, I've never heard people saying, "I'm an atheist... AND a Buddhist."

I did, and I heard others do the same. For a couple of years I actually engaged in Buddhist practice, and during that time I called myself a Buddhist, but that was a religion. Atheism isn't a religion, and I remained an atheist. After I got married and had a kid, I gradually stopped doing Buddhist stuff, and eventually stopped calling myself Buddhist, but I haven't changed my beliefs any.
Sure there is lots of woo associated with Buddhism, but nothing I ever heard at the Zen Center actually required any belief in anything wooish.

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

I saw once that the Dalai Lama said that to attain immortality, teach a child something. Kind of a cool concept...

At the same time, Buddhism is still full of silly archaic woo. Claiming Buddhism to be compatible with atheism and citing like 3 paragraphs looks like hopeful confirmation bias to me... If you're looking for comforting words or words that resemble skepticism, those can pretty much selectively be found in any religious texts. Also, meditation and self reflection are fine, but I can do both without the aid of a religion.

Besides, I've never heard people saying, "I'm an atheist... AND a Buddhist."

Of course if that stuff helps you, that's great. I can't say anything about that, but I don't think ANY religions are "completely compatible with atheism."

Confession of a Buddhist Atheist .

But it is fairly easy for atheism to be compatible. What most here are referring to is secularism, skepticism, humanism, etc. Atheism is strictly about god, not supernaturalism in general. And while the Buddha didn't say, there are many classical Buddhist arguments against one.

 

[Hokulele]

Besides, I've never heard people saying, "I'm an atheist... AND a Buddhist."

I used to. There is another poster on this forum, Ryokan, who currently describes himself this way. I have met many others in real life, as in Hawai'i, Buddhism is one of the more popular religions (it is the only state in the US where Christianity is not the majority religion, they are all minorities).

A lot of it will depend on where you live and who you ask.

 

[Dancing David]

Freedom from clinging to self.

Okay master grasshopper . Zen word salad:

If I stop clinging to myself, will I find myself?

Your question, your answer, I did not say that.

And if we lived in an ideal world, wouldn't we all cling to ourselves equally and teach other the same?

And again the 'self' that the buddha taught against is the atman the transcendant self or soul, but the theory of the origination of suffering is as I stated it. I did condense a lot of material into very few sentence.

The common self is the body. But many peope worry and try to maintain other versions of the self all the time: the impression other people have of them, their future self, their monetary self, etc.

They cling to pleasure and avoid pain, which can be okay, but not always helpful.

Since we don't (and won't) all cling or release ourselves, what advantage is there to choosing one over the other?

You know Trent, if you want to just shoot from the hip that is fine, but don't expect me to respond to you.

If you want to believe in the atman that is fine by me.

If you have more specific questions I will answer them. I gave you a seven sentence review of a large philosophy.

Do some people get upset over the haircut they got, hmmm, why is that?

Why not waffle back and forth depending on the moment and situation? Sometimes I will cling to myself, othertimes I won't. Or is it better to pick one over the other and stick with it?

Why not just ramble and argue without understanding?
You could do do some reading.

*obligatory loud temple !! gooooongggg !!*

 

[DC]

I'm familiar only with very basic concepts about Buddhism (VERY basic). But I do see it referenced quite a bit, directly, throughout this forum.

Is there a draw to Buddhism for the atheist, non-believer, etc ? If so, specifically why? What is it about Buddhism that speaks to you (regardless of your belief status)?

Thanx in advance for any responses ...

well i also have only very basic knowledge.
what i like is no Gods. and the teachings i heard are pretty good, but also comes with alot woo. Reincarnation for example. and in China i learned even more woo about it.

but you can also find smart things in the bibel or the Koran.

 

[Dancing David]

I did, and I heard others do the same. For a couple of years I actually engaged in Buddhist practice, and during that time I called myself a Buddhist, but that was a religion. Atheism isn't a religion, and I remained an atheist. After I got married and had a kid, I gradually stopped doing Buddhist stuff, and eventually stopped calling myself Buddhist, but I haven't changed my beliefs any.
Sure there is lots of woo associated with Buddhism, but nothing I ever heard at the Zen Center actually required any belief in anything wooish.

Yup, full of 2500 years of woo, even my favorite teacehr Thich Naht Hahn gets wooey all the time.

But then he also wrote an amazing book with very little woo (as woo goes)
Heart of the Buddha's teaching.

 

[Dancing David]

The AHB also said "Your milage may vary, if it doesn't work for you, then try something else."

The great revelation of the AHB was this "There is no self (atman)." This leads to the principle of anatta.

So tanha (desire/unbalance) comes from trying to please the self or avoid pain to the self. This leads to more dukka (suffering/imbalance).

Now please note the buddha rejected mortification as part of the middle path, the body should be cared for, but not to excess.

The eightfold path allegedly leads to freedom from clininging to the self.

Reposted to fix the typos!

Seven sentence philosophy!

 

[Ryokan]

Besides, I've never heard people saying, "I'm an atheist... AND a Buddhist."

I've said it many times, even on this forum.

I'm an atheist, and a Buddhist.

 

[Apathia]

Besides, I've never heard people saying, "I'm an atheist... AND a Buddhist."

You've come to the right place!
I'm an Atheist, Buddhist, and Unitarian-Universalist.

And a Stoic too, not to ignore my screen name. There are a number of parallels between Stoic and Buddhist wisdom. There there were some Stoic Atheists as well.