Non-baryonic cold dark matter ("CDM"), the observational evidence

Thanks Sol.

As always, your opinion will be valued.

One thing that I forgot to re-iterate:

1) My current understanding is that it is very likely that the DM halo cannot be represented by a simplistic density-radius relationship, as shown here. Just like the luminous matter density function is not simplistic.

2) The more complex the density-radius relationship, the more burdens are placed on our understanding of the DM halo. Our luminous matter functions are complex, true, but in my opinion they have as their basis many observations of the behaviour of this luminous, baryonic matter which we at least think we understand well.

Basically, if we posit a "low density core" spherical density-radius relationship (for example), we need to have a very good reason to do so, that can be explained by the expected behaviour of the DM material. If we just curve-fit to fit the data, then such a solution ends up being, well, MOND-ish.
Cool, very cool! :D

I don't want to be a party pooper, but I'd hoped that this thread would be about the observational evidence for CDM, not what those observations might (or might not) say about particular kinds of CDM (or how well - or otherwise - certain models of what the CDM might be match the observations) ...

I mean, the observations are the observations, and the interpretation is that there is a lot - and awful lot - of non-baryonic matter in the halos of galaxies like the MW (and many other galaxies, and several other classes of galaxy).

The self-interactions of that CDM, as well as non-gravitational, non-electromagnetic interactions with baryonic matter, is a fascinating topic ... but one that's beyond the scope of this thread ...
 
Cool, very cool! :D

I don't want to be a party pooper, but I'd hoped that this thread would be about the observational evidence for CDM, not what those observations might (or might not) say about particular kinds of CDM (or how well - or otherwise - certain models of what the CDM might be match the observations) ...

I mean, the observations are the observations, and the interpretation is that there is a lot - and awful lot - of non-baryonic matter in the halos of galaxies like the MW (and many other galaxies, and several other classes of galaxy).

The self-interactions of that CDM, as well as non-gravitational, non-electromagnetic interactions with baryonic matter, is a fascinating topic ... but one that's beyond the scope of this thread ...

Sorry, DRD. It is at times a herculean effort to keep these threads on subject. Sorry for hijacking repeatedly.
 
Thanks, Wangler. I'll think about this and respond later.

Sol,

I am sure you are aware of this, but I want to state the fact anyhow, just so my presentation of this subject is more complete:

For the numerical solution that I provided, it should be obvious that it requires an initial value, and I think that they typcially limit the density at the core:

[latex] {\rho}_{r} (0) = finite[/latex]

Sorry, DRD, off subject again...trying to sneak it in, if I can!

;)
 
Sorry, DRD. It is at times a herculean effort to keep these threads on subject. Sorry for hijacking repeatedly.
Just to be crystal clear ...

I'm as interested as anyone, maybe more so, in what the nature of the CDM that the observations I have, and will, discuss here point to.

And it is a fascinating subject ... and lots of (astronomy) papers have been written on how various observations can constrain the nature of CDM (or not), and what research programmes might (or might not) do, in terms of testing various hypotheses about the nature of CDM, etc, etc, etc.

However, I started this thread with the express intention of covering the observational evidence for the existence of CDM, in three domains (galaxies, rich clusters of galaxies, and cosmology).

If there are questions on the observations, or the interpretations of those observations (that there is a lot of CDM), I'd like to address them ... first.

If the observations leave any reader unconvinced (of the existence of CDM, not its nature (beyond being non-baryonic)), I'd be most interested to hear from you, and why you are not yet convinced.
 
Could the mass in the MW halo - and the halos of other galaxies - be largely black holes?

This is a question I left open earlier, and is the last thing I'll look before going on to point two (observational evidence for CDM in rich clusters of galaxies), unless there are further questions or issues to do with the observational evidence for CDM in galaxies.

At one level, the black hole (BH) population of the MW halo can be constrained, observationally, in much the same way as that of (other) MACHOs can - by the number and type of microlensing events, and by the number of hyper-velocity BHs observed zipping through the solar system (and, maybe, colliding with a planet, moon, asteroid, comet, ...).

However, these constraints are considerably weaker than for the corresponding classes of baryonic matter, because ... well, for several reasons.

First, while there is much uncertainty over many details, the size/mass distribution of various classes of baryonic matter - from stars to brown dwarfs to planets to ... to dust - is reasonably well constrained: given an observed abundance of, say, brown dwarfs, or dust (especially AND dust!), the amount of mass per mass interval (say a log factor of 0.3) can be fairly reliably estimated. This can be done because dust, ... brown dwarfs have been observed, and the formation processes of the various kinds of objects reasonably well described and quantified.

Not so for BHs - for starters, no BHs with masses much below 1 sol have been observed, period; for seconds, no verified processes for the formation of such BHs have made their way to textbooks yet. And that is thus of no help in constraining the mass of such BHs in the MW halo, their mass distribution, or their locations and motions.

Second, while there are some limits that can be put on BH abundance, from the lack of any accretion disks (more later), these are very wide limits.

Finally, while it is expected that BHs will evaporate, in a burst of Hawking radiation, and while no such radiation has been observed (yet), from anywhere in the sky, it may turn out that BHs do not behave this way at all (perhaps 'Hawking radiation' is an extrapolation, of twenty, too far). So, for example, there could a large population of primordial BHs ... and we wouldn't have seen any evidence of it yet.

Black holes and accretion disks: using the (misleading) popular metaphor of BHs 'sucking in' external mass, a BH travelling at some non-zero velocity relative to the medium it moves through (the MW halo, say) will 'suck in' the stray gas and dust (and occasional bit of sand, rock, and even rogue planet or star) it encounters. However, because the BH is extremely small, the gravitational acceleration near its event horizon is ginormous, so matter which is 'sucked in' will be moving at relativistic speeds when it disappears from the observable universe. Further, most such matter will not fall directly in, but will first go into orbit about the BH (conservation of angular momentum) ... and will form an accretion disk. The physics of this system (BH+baryonic matter accretion disk) is still poorly understood, but one thing is for sure: to a distant observer, it will be extremely luminous!

So, except for populations of very, very small mass BHs, if the MW halo has had BH populations for billions of years, there should be at least some luminous accretion disks visible today ... yet none have been seen so far. Ergo, the numbers of such BHs can be constrained.
 
Observational evidence for CDM in rich clusters of galaxies.

It was the Coma cluster, the closest rich cluster, in the 1930s, and Zwicky, that got the CDM ball rolling ... though 'non-baryonic' hadn't been invented yet.

The technique he used is straight out of the physics textbook, under the section devoted to Newtonian gravity, and employed mathematical tools Newton invented.

Basically, Zwicky found that the range of line of sight velocities of the galaxies in the Coma cluster he took spectra of implied an amount of mass in that cluster far, far greater than that implied by counting the galaxies and estimating the mass of stars and gas and dust in them (based on the amount of light detected by his instruments - photographic plates). For Wrangler: google on 'virial theorem'.

Fast forward ~7 decades.

General Relativity-based gravitational lensing, both 'strong' and 'weak', provides an independent method of estimating the total mass of rich clusters; quite a few such clusters have now been investigated with this technique, and the results are the same as those from investigations using the virial theorem.

Another technique for estimating the mass in rich clusters is the same as one used for estimating the mass of certain giant elliptical galaxies, and it involves studying x-ray emission. This technique is quite powerful for rich clusters, so it's worth spending some time on it ... which I'll do in a later post. The bottom line is the same: the estimated mass in rich clusters is the same (within the relevant observational and analytical uncertainties) as that derived from the two other techniques mentioned.

For studying CDM in rich clusters, there's a new technique available, based on a section of the physics textbook we've not opened yet - if you want to read ahead, look up "the Sunyaev-Zel'dovich effect" (a.k.a. the SZ effect) and "Compton scattering" and "inverse Compton effect".

To end this post, a comment on where the baryonic mass in rich clusters is found: not in the galaxies of the clusters, but in the medium between the galaxies, the inter-galactic medium (IGM) or intra-cluster medium. Some of this IGM is dust, some is stars (and planets and rocks and ...) stripped from cluster galaxies during collisions and mergers, some is stars (and planets and rocks and ...) shot out of cluster galaxies in various violent, rare events, some undoubtedly is cold gas, .... but almost all of it is very hot, highly ionised gas (plasma). Rich clusters are outstanding sources of diffuse x-ray emission.
 
Thread's gone quiet - no one has any questions? Is everyone waiting breathlessly for the next exciting episode?

Or have I just bored you all to somnolence?
 
The Sunyaev-Zel'dovich effect (SZE).

Or how to count baryons.

X-ray observations of rich clusters of galaxies invariably show them to be strong, diffuse sources (predominantly; there are, of course, point sources (such as AGNs) and some small diffuse sources (usually the giant elliptical at the centre)). These x-rays come from a very hot plasma which pervades each cluster; among other things, this means there are rather a lot of hot electrons throughout the cluster.

In the Compton effect, x-rays collide with ('scatter off') electrons, with the electrons gaining energy and the x-rays losing it.

In the inverse Compton effect, low energy photons collide with high energy electrons (i.e. hot electrons, or electrons in particle beams) and the photons gain energy (and the electrons lose it).

When we look at a cluster of galaxies, we see it backlit by the CMB, which is comprised of low energy photons. Put low energy photons together with hot electrons, and lots of inverse Compton scattering happens - and to us the CMB will look hotter towards a cluster than it does elsewhere. Further, as the line of sight through the plasma through the centre of the cluster is longer than that elsewhere, the CMB is 'hottest' at the centre. The effect was predicted by Sunyaev and Zel'dovich, and subsequently observed.

This webpage gives a brief, relatively non-technical description; this 1999 review gives a more complete overview (the physics is right, but the observations are now way more in number and quality).

Crudely, observations of the SZE can be interpreted as estimates of the total mass of the rich cluster contained in the hot plasma, because the SZE is essentially an exercise in counting (hot) electrons. On their own, such observations do not constrain the baryonic mass much, but combined with x-ray observations - which constrain the temperature and (to some extent) density profile of a cluster - some robust constraints on the total baryonic mass of the cluster can be obtained.

It turns out that the galaxies in rich clusters are only minor (baryonic) constituents - take all the galaxies out (and all the IGM stars too), and a rich cluster would still contain pretty much the same number of baryons (humbling, isn't it?).

What about CDM? How does the SZE constitute observational evidence that rich clusters are mostly CDM (mass-wise)?

Indirectly ... observations of the SZE are independent of gravitational lensing and x-ray observations, so provide independent confirmation that rich clusters are not, mainly, just hot plasmas. They also, in combination with detailed x-ray observations, help to estimate the density profile of CDM across such clusters, because the SZE has a dependence on the electron density and electron temperature (of the plasma) that is quite different from the corresponding dependence of the x-ray emission.

Next: a more detailed look at rich clusters' x-ray emission.
 
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That was weird; I had just begun a reply with quotes about your post, as I was certain you meant "hot" in the places you said "cold".....

When the quote came up for my response, it was of your edited version, which must have been posted at the same instant.

Needless to say, I was a mite confused there for a few moments!
 
That was weird; I had just begun a reply with quotes about your post, as I was certain you meant "hot" in the places you said "cold".....

When the quote came up for my response, it was of your edited version, which must have been posted at the same instant.

Needless to say, I was a mite confused there for a few moments!
Yes, I had a bit of a disconnect between brain and fingers*, and edited the post accordingly ... you must have jumped in in the middle.

*not as bad as another of mine, some time ago now ... where I left out a vital word ("not")! :p
 
Use of 'gravitational lensing' to independently measure the mass of galaxies.

In one sense, Einstein was lucky: very soon after he published the general theory of relativity (GR), one of its predictions was confirmed ... the deflection of light by the mass of the Sun. Of course, GR was already on a sound observational basis, through its post-diction (explanation) of the advance of the perihelion of Mercury, which had been known for many decades. It also helped that Eddington was an enthusiastic supporter, so the observations of stars near the limb of the (eclipsed) Sun were interpreted as confirmation (today we'd call those observations marginal).

It was soon determined that a massive, compact body such as a galaxy should be able to 'lens' a more distant object, such as another galaxy; it was also quickly realised that this would happen only very rarely.

However, in 1979 just such an example of (strong) gravitational lensing was discovered, the distant object being a quasar.

With the angular resolution of the Hubble Space Telescope (HST), many examples of such strong lensing can be discovered; a very recent HST PR gives some examples, and the associated papers and articles explain how many more will likely be discovered in the next few decades.

Estimating the mass of the 'lens' is relatively straight-forward, using textbook physics (GR), although in practice there are complications.

The beauty of this technique is that it is completely independent of the others I've discussed so far: the only thing that matters for GR is the total mass.

And while the number of galaxies whose masses have been estimated using this technique is, today, still small, the results are consistent with those from the other techniques.

There is another kind of gravitational (due to GR) lensing, 'weak lensing', also called 'shear'. In this case, the shape of a distant object is distorted, but only subtly. So for this technique to work, you need lots and lots of distant objects whose undistorted shapes are known. Fortunately, this is exactly what some of the recent large surveys can do, though in this case you get an averaged picture of the mass distribution of a lot of galaxies, rather than of just one.

One possible result from weak lensing observations, of galaxies, is an estimate of the shape of the mass distribution in the halos; the other techniques can give only estimates of the 'mass within distance x' - i.e. the distribution of mass assuming it is spherical (detailed studies of MW halo stars are an exception, as are some studies of some dwarf galaxies; however these are too new to say much about yet, and in any case would apply to only one, or a very few, galaxies).

Weak lensing observations of galaxies is relatively new, however results (estimates of galaxy halo mass) to date are consistent with those from techniques, and there are some early results on the shape of those halos (e.g. there is some 'flattening' and 'ellipticity'), on how they differ from one type of galaxy to another (e.g. giant elliptical galaxies in the centres of rich clusters seem to have different halos than other galaxies), and on how they depend on galaxy environment (e.g. galaxy halos in rich clusters seem to be 'truncated').

Next: so how do we know that this mass, in galaxy (halos), which is not emitting or absorbing light, is CDM?
Update ...

One of the great things about surveys like SDSS is that they not only turn up many interesting things, but also that the incidence of such 'interesting things' can be used, in pretty straight-forward ways, to put bounds on all kinds of other, even more interesting things ... and be used to test various hypotheses, models, etc.

One project spun off from the SDSS survey is SLACS - Sloan Lens ACS Survey (extract from abstract; emphasis added):
The Sloan Lens ACS (SLACS) Survey is an efficient Hubble Space Telescope (HST) Snapshot imaging survey for new galaxy-scale strong gravitational lenses. The targeted lens candidates are selected spectroscopically from the Sloan Digital Sky Survey (SDSS) database of galaxy spectra for having multiple nebular emission lines at a redshift significantly higher than that of the SDSS target galaxy. The SLACS survey is optimized to detect bright early-type lens galaxies with faint lensed sources in order to increase the sample of known gravitational lenses suitable for detailed lensing, photometric, and dynamical modeling.
.

To date, there have been 7 papers in this series, which have already collectively garnered >200 citations.

For the purposes of this thread, perhaps the most relevant of the seven are IV ("The Sloan Lens ACS Survey. IV: the mass density profile of early-type galaxies out to 100 effective radii") and VII ("The Sloan Lens ACS Survey. VII. Elliptical Galaxy Scaling Laws from Direct Observational Mass Measurements").

Here are the abstracts to these two papers, in order (and yes, if you're not au fait with the jargon astronomers use, much of these may seem like gibberish; also, much of the formatting is lost):
We present a weak gravitational lensing analysis of 22 early-type (strong) lens galaxies, based on deep Hubble Space Telescope images obtained as part of the Sloan Lens ACS Survey. Using advanced techniques to control systematic uncertainties related to the variable point spread function and charge transfer efficiency of the Advanced Camera for Surveys (ACS), we show that weak lensing signal is detected out to the edge of the Wide Field Camera (. 300 h−1 kpc at the mean lens redshift z = 0.2). We analyze blank control fields from the COSMOS survey in the same manner, inferring that the residual systematic uncertainty in the tangential shear is less than 0.3%. A joint strong and weak lensing analysis shows that the average total mass density profile is consistent with isothermal (i.e. ρ ∝ r−2) over two decades in radius (3-300 h−1 kpc, approximately 1-100 effective radii). This finding extends by over an order of magnitude in radius previous results, based on strong lensing and/or stellar dynamics, that luminous and dark component “conspire” to form an isothermal mass distribution. In order to disentangle the contributions of luminous and dark matter, we fit a two-component mass model (de Vaucouleurs + Navarro Frenk & White) to the weak and strong lensing constraints. It provides a good fit to the data with only two free parameters; i) the average stellar mass-to-light ratio M∗/LV = 4.48±0.46 hM⊙/L⊙ (at z = 0.2), in agreement with that expected for an old stellar population; ii) the average virial mass-to-light ratio Mvir/LV = 246+101 −87 hM⊙/L⊙. Taking into account the scatter in the mass-luminosity relation, this latter result is in good agreement with semi-analytical models of massive galaxies formation. The dark matter fraction inside the sphere of radius the effective radius is found to be 27±4%. Our results are consistent with galaxy-galaxy lensing studies of early-type galaxies that are not strong lenses, in the region of overlap (30-300 h−1 kpc).
Thus, within the uncertainties, our results are representative of early-type galaxies in general.
We use a sample of 53 massive early-type strong gravitational lens galaxies with well-measured redshifts (ranging from z = 0.06 to 0.36) and stellar velocity dispersions (between 175 and 400 kms−1) from the Sloan Lens ACS (SLACS) Survey to derive numerous empirical scaling relations. The ratio between central stellar velocity dispersion and isothermal lens-model velocity dispersion is nearly unity within errors. The SLACS lenses define a fundamental plane (FP) that is consistent with the FP of the general population of early-type galaxies. We measure the relationship between strong-lensing mass Mlens within one-half effective radius (Re/2) and the dimensional mass variableMdim ≡ G−12 e2(Re/2) to be log10[Mlens/1011M⊙] = (1.03 ± 0.04) log10[Mdim/1011M⊙] + (0.54 ± 0.02) (where e2 is the projected stellar velocity dispersion within Re/2). The near-unity slope indicates that the mass dynamical structure of massive elliptical galaxies is independent of mass, and that the “tilt” of the SLACS FP is due entirely to variation in total (luminous plus dark) mass-to-light ratio with mass. Our results imply that dynamical masses serve as a good proxies for true masses in massive elliptical galaxies. Regarding the SLACS lenses as a homologous population, we find that the average enclosed 2D mass profile goes as log10[M(<R)/Mdim] = (1.10±0.09) log10[R/Re]+(0.85±0.03), consistent with an isothermal (flat rotation curve) model when de-projected into 3D. This measurement is inconsistent with the slope of the average projected aperture luminosity profile at a confidence level greater than 99.9%, implying a minimum dark-matter fraction of fDM = 0.38 ± 0.07 within one effective radius.
We also present an analysis of the angular mass structure of the lens galaxies, which further supports the need for dark matter inside one effective radius.
.

Of the many take-aways, perhaps just two (for now) stand out:

* the lensing observations are consistent with observations using other techniques, concerning the distribution of, and amount of, CDM (in these galaxies)

* the galaxies analysed seem to be a representative sample of the population of galaxies of this type (this is very, very important!)
 
Hot off the (arXiv) press!

"The Milky Way's Circular Velocity Curve to 60 kpc and an Estimate of the Dark Matter Halo Mass from Kinematics of ~2500 SDSS Blue Horizontal Branch Stars"

whew, what a mouthful :p Here is a link to the preprint abstract; here is the SDSS PR.

Lots of interesting stuff in this paper, including a quick summary of previous estimates of this mass, the difference between two measures ("circular velocity curve" and "escape velocity curve"), role of models, and something quite neat about 'error bars' (a.k.a. uncertainties).

The net is: a much tighter constraint on the mass within 60 kpc of the MW nucleus (~1 trillion sols), consistent with earlier work (but towards the lower bounds of earlier estimates) ... still lots and lots of CDM ....
 
Originally Posted by Skwinty
Hi DRD
Very interesting, I have saved the thread for further digestion.
Still seems to me though the evidence relates to the effects rather than dark matter itself. Sure, the inferences about dark matter are there.
I suppose that when dark matter is produced in the lab, which hopefully will be soon then clarity will prevail in the dark recesses of my knowledge base. I dont dispute the existence of CDM just expressing some doubt as to the definitive headlines that one sees in publications.
Also as Carl Sagan said, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Thanks for the fine effort at explaining all the finer points of CDM.

(bold added)

First, why not ask about this in that thread itself? After all, this one is supposed to be about Plasma Cosmology and whether it is woo or not (do you have something to add to that question, BTW)?

Second, doesn't "the evidence relates to the effects rather than dark matter itself" cover just about all of astronomy (beyond the solar system)? For example, what are spectroscopic binaries? eclipsing binaries? neutron stars (NS)? white dwarf (WD) stars? the [OIII] 500.7 nm emission line? the 21-cm HI line?

In which lab has even the [OIII] 500.7 nm line been observed (much less a 10g chunk of WD or NS matter)?

And it doesn't have to be forms of mass ... how about 10^9 T magnetic fields? or particle accelerators that can produce 10^20 eV protons?
 
Hi DRD
Sorry about misposting my opinion.
I was reading the PC thread when this issue arose and I asked about it.
I have nothing to say about PC as I know nothing about it.
Not that I know much about CDM either, merely asking and stating my opinion.

My point of view stems from headlines that state for example

"The Quest for Dark Matter, Astrophysicists know where it is, but not what it is"

"Dark Matter Detection or Delusion"

"Evidence that Dark Matter has been observed"

You seem to be a bit miffed at my opinion even though I admit the shallowness of my knowledge and state that I have no dispute with the evidence you present which in my opinion only points to the where dark matter is and not what it is.
 
Hi DRD
Sorry about misposting my opinion.
I was reading the PC thread when this issue arose and I asked about it.
I have nothing to say about PC as I know nothing about it.
Not that I know much about CDM either, merely asking and stating my opinion.

My point of view stems from headlines that state for example

"The Quest for Dark Matter, Astrophysicists know where it is, but not what it is"

"Dark Matter Detection or Delusion"

"Evidence that Dark Matter has been observed"

You seem to be a bit miffed at my opinion even though I admit the shallowness of my knowledge and state that I have no dispute with the evidence you present which in my opinion only points to the where dark matter is and not what it is.
"Science by headlines" (or press releases) isn't really science, is it?

And to the extent that the people who write the headlines (or PRs) get their science wrong, we shouldn't necessarily conclude the science on which the headlines (or PRs) is (however tenuously) based is itself wrong, should we?

When you've had a chance to read more of this thread (and the links in it), you may appreciate that "only points to the where dark matter is and not what it is" may be a little, shall we say, too sweeping.

For example:

* INTEGRAL has observed what we currently interpret as diffuse gamma emission from the MW bulge and disk, and this can set some (rather weak) constraints on the nature of CDM (certain SUSY particles would give a diffuse gamma background, for example)

* the shape and profile of the CDM halos of galaxies, as inferred from various observations (discussed briefly in this thread) likewise sets some constraints on the nature of CDM particles

* the Millennium simulations (and others), combined with astronomical observations, also set some (weak) constraints on the nature of CDM.

And, most fundamentally (?), CDM is, indeed, "cold" ... surely describing the attributes of something constitutes at least part of the answer to any "what" question, doesn't it? Oh, at CDM is also "non-baryonic" ...
 
"Science by headlines" (or press releases) isn't really science, is it?

And to the extent that the people who write the headlines (or PRs) get their science wrong, we shouldn't necessarily conclude the science on which the headlines (or PRs) is (however tenuously) based is itself wrong, should we?

I agree on the science by headlines not being science. Remember though, I am not writing those headlines and I never intimated that the science was wrong, only that the headlines seem a bit hyped. Hence the Carl Sagan quote.

"When you've had a chance to read more of this thread (and the links in it), you may appreciate that "only points to the where dark matter is and not what it is" may be a little, shall we say, too sweeping

I will most certainly read the thread and links more deeply, thats why I saved the entire thread as I stated

"And, most fundamentally (?), CDM is, indeed, "cold" ... surely describing the attributes of something constitutes at least part of the answer to any "what" question, doesn't it? Oh, at CDM is also "non-baryonic" ...

Here I interprete you saying that CDM is cold ie no IR emission and non baryonic ie not normal matter. So you have stated what it is not rather than what it is.

What I dont understand perhaps are the implications that observations of WD, NS etc are comparable to observation of dark matter.
In other words, I can understand observations of "normal" stellar objects to be direct but observation of CDM in laymans understanding to be indirect ie observation of the effects.

when you observe an eclipsing binary, you obseve a direct consequence of one object eclipsing another. You can see both objects.

When you observe gravitational lensing you can only see one object, and can only infer things about the unseen object.
Now, as I have stated many times, I am not a scientist, just an interested observer, so I accept gross deficiencies in my understanding and am hoping that participation in these discussions will widen my scientific understanding rather than trying to elevate confrontation and troll behaviour.
 
...snip...
When you observe gravitational lensing you can only see one object, and can only infer things about the unseen object.
Now, as I have stated many times, I am not a scientist, just an interested observer, so I accept gross deficiencies in my understanding and am hoping that participation in these discussions will widen my scientific understanding rather than trying to elevate confrontation and troll behaviour.
A small point: The gravitational lensing used in the Bullet Cluster observation is micro-gravitational lensing where the distortion of the shapes of background objects (galaxies) is used to determine the distribution of mass within an area.
 

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