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Noah's Ark found?

You know damn well what "race" I'm talking about. The Human race. And I assume you know enough of Christianity to know what "chosen" means, too.
Ego is thinking you are part of the creator's chosen race.
"Ego is thinking you are part of the creator's chosen human race."
Uh-huh...

Of course I know what "chosen' means, in my understanding.

I'm asking you, yet again, what does "chosen" mean to you since you brought it up?

Why is this so difficult with you?
 
Radrook is back! Hey, Radrook, I think this now makes six times (seven? I've lost count) that you have failed to answer my simple question about your bizarre claims. Here, we'll make it multiple choice:

A: Man, you're right, my idea makes no sense. Let me think about this.
B: Hmm. You're right. Must have been a miracle!
B: Hah! Caught me! I was just randomly making stuff up.
C: Sorry I took so long. My answer is _____________________.

You mean about the consequent supposed diversification of species after the flood?
That's a proposition put forth by some in order to account for the number of species evident today. Are you claiming that speciation didn't take place? Or are you claiming that speciation couldn't have taken place to that extent given the biblical chronology? If the latter then please provide some documentation which proves that such speciation is impossible within the biblical chronology parameters. That of course is assuming you already know what those parameters are.

BTW
Here are examples of observed incidences of speciation.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html
 
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Well, at any rate, if you are so inclined, I wonder if you would like to address my earlier question. I referred earlier to a story told by the creator of the universe. (For lack of a better term, we'll call it God.) The Psalms say, "The heavens are telling the glory of God. The wonder of his works displays the firmament." So, why ignore what the heavens are telling us? They are telling us that they are very, very, old. That tale is one that is not transmitted or translated by men. That tale comes directly from God. Why ignore it?
Time is a relative physical property.

Is God limited by the physical or outside the physical?

Likewise with the rocks of the Earth. They, too, have a tale to tell. They tell a tale of great age and no deluge. Why ignore that tale? The authorship of the Bible is not universally accepted, but everyone agrees who made the rocks. We might have disputes about the nature of the force that created the rocks, but we all agree that the same force that created man created the rocks. How can you so blithely ignore their story?
Because I, and others, disagree in interpreting the evidence, that does not mean I ignore it as you assert. There are many who do find evidences of The Great Deluge. You blithely do not accept that interpretation. We disagree.


Youre not still trying to get a straight answer out of the fundies are you

They lie to themselves everyday to bolster their faith, what makes you think theyre even capable of being honest when pushed to it

;)
Brilliant.

They lie everyday to assert faith in a God who commands them not to lie and to whom they believe themselves accountable.
 
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"Ego is thinking you are part of the creator's chosen human race."
Uh-huh...

Of course I know what "chosen' means, in my understanding.

I'm asking you, yet again, what does "chosen" mean to you since you brought it up?

Why is this so difficult with you?


You already know what we think of your beliefs.

I think you're delusional and insane.

Why do you want us to read what you write and answer your questions?

What do you hope will come from this discussion?

You are here to proselytize your religion, attempting to convert us to your religious beliefs.

I don't think anyone is interested or persuaded by your efforts at all.

I'm here primarily for community, some fellowship, and the possibility of friendships and good conversations.

Once again, what do you hope will come from this discussion?
 
So says the one who claims that time is a relative physical property.
I don't understand your point.
Are you saying that time is not a relative physical property? Heard of Einstein?

Can you feel the love tonight?
 
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I have no expectations. Make of it what you will.


I'm just wondering why you insist on wasting our time with your conversion tattempts when we're really not interested?

Are you just being boorish or abusive?

Neither approach will have a positive effect for your purposes.

Are we a challenge to you?

Did someone dare you to set your mission here?

I wish you'd find something non-religious to talk about. I suspect we'd all enjoy it much more.
 
154 do you believe the bible to be literally true?
You believe the earth is a few 1000 years old?
... moses got some tablets from god?
... the ark was real?
... jesus turned water into wine?
 
So no Noah's Ark huh? Too bad really, as a kid I loved the movie "In Search Of Noah's Ark". Of course I liked a lot of things as a kid that are just hooey now.
 
Nice try. Better luck next time.
Nice try what? Better luck what? Getting you to be honest? I have no hope of that.

You will not answer if you think time is a relative physical property?!
That is objectionable to scientific, critical-thinker you?
 
Concerning time and age of the universe.

Food for thought, or not.


Do you understand the universe to be over 15 billion years old? Or that it was created in 6 days less than 10,000 years ago? If you believe the latter, was the light that appears to have traveled millions of light-years created in transit? Were aging factors "built-in"? Were the "days" of Genesis actually geologic ages?

The Nature of Time

The age of the universe hangs on the very nature of the dimension of time, which we are just beginning to understand. Einstein's Theory of General Relativity states that we exist in more than three dimensions; time itself is a physical property and actually varies with mass, acceleration, and gravity.
{snip}
Edited by Tricky: 
Edited for rule 4. Do not post large amounts of material from other sites. See this link for a more detailed explanation.
http://www.khouse.org/articles/1999/245/
 
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From 154's link with the exponents formatted correctly and the reference numbers removed:


It is the incredible expanse that leads to the difficulties in reconciling the astronomical distances with time as we know it here on the earth. Gerald Schroeder has suggested that the expansion factor is well known from a number of quantum physics considerations as approximately 1012. Sixteen billion years (a commonly suggested age of the universe) is about 6,000,000,000,000 days: applying the 1012 expansion factor results in about 6 days! It all depends on whose clock you're looking at!


http://www.khouse.org/articles/1999/245/




ETA: 154, please check to make sure quoted material is in an understandable format. I spent a lot of time trying to figure out what you were trying to say. Either use caret marks e.g. 10^21 or use the [ sup] [ /sup] tags
 
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Nice try what? Better luck what? Getting you to be honest? I have no hope of that.

You will not answer if you think time is a relative physical property?!
That is objectionable to scientific, critical-thinker you?

Calm down, son.

If you have any scientific or critical-thinking credentials, I'll be happy to examine them any time you're ready.

As far as I can tell, you got nothing.


So refresh my memory: What are you doing the peepee dance about? :)
 
Time is a relative physical property.

Is God limited by the physical or outside the physical?

God is unlimited, and outside the physical. However, His works appear to exist in this world, and appear to behave according to what we call the laws of physics which were authored by God.

It appears that starlight reaching our eyes from distant galaxies has travelled anywhere from a few years to several billion years from its destination in order to be seen by us. Furthermore, the nature of that light shows us processes, such as star formation and galaxy formation, that require billions of years, but are at various stages of completion. Thus the universe appears very, very, old.

One explanation that I have heard for this phenomenon is that God created the universe six thousand years ago, but made it appear as if it were several billion years old. On scientific grounds, one cannot test that assertion, and it doesn't really matter if that is the case. The universe behaves exactly as if it were created several billion years ago, so we may as well assume it was, in fact, created several billion years ago. Scientifically, we will make no errors in doing so. All of our experiments and measurements will make sense under those assumptions, even if the world were "really" created last Tuesday.

When I was a Christian, I always rejected that explanation purely on theological grounds. If God created the world to appear very old when it was in fact very young that would require God to be very deceptive indeed. The universe looks old. Even though I no longer believe in the God of the Bible, I will not call God a liar.

Of course, there is Einsteinian relativity to consider, and that may be what you were referring to with your first sentence. (I can't really tell, if the truth be told.) In some reference frame somewhere, the Earth is indeed six thousand years old, and a much, much, different shape. I don't think it solves any problems for the Biblical literalist. (For one thing, it would require Noah to have died at the age of 900 million years, in a reference frame fixed on the Earth.)

Because I, and others, disagree in interpreting the evidence, that does not mean I ignore it as you assert.

Do you disagree in interpreting the evidence, or are you unaware of how to interpet the evidence? I've never seen any claim that, scientifically, the Earth appears to be very young. I have heard assertions, by literalists of Christian, Muslim, or Jewish faiths, who believe the Old Testament, that its age cannot be determined. Do you think that is the case? Have you made any attempt to find out why other people seem to think that the rocks are billions of years old, or do you not need to do so because that would simply be questioning your faith?

Those questions are mostly rhetorical, but I will ask you a non-rhetorical question related to this that I recenty asked another person who was interested in Noah's flood. If a geologist applied for a job with an oil company, for a position in which he would be expected to help them find oil, and he revealed, during the interview, that he believed in a world wide deluge that occurred a few thousand years ago, how do you think that would affect his chances of getting the job? If you think it would have an impact, why do you think that is? The last person I posed that question to declined to answer.

There are many who do find evidences of The Great Deluge. You blithely do not accept that interpretation. We disagree.


Perhaps I just haven't seen it. When I have seen arguments that make some sort of scientific claim, their claim is that such a deluge could have happened, but not that it somehow is demonstrated by the evidence itself. e.g. I read recently an argument that the crater off the Yucatan peninsula was caused by a meteoritic bombardment that occurred in the week prior to the flood, rather than 65 million years ago. However, they didn't actually present evidence that would allow one to determine which of those assertions was true. They simply claimed that the crater could be a few thousand years old, and that the Bible supports the possibility of a meteoritic bombardment prior to the flood.

I'm sure if you were to refer us to an example of such evidence we would be glad to examine it.

And, of course, once every few years someone finds the remains of a boat in northern Turkey or Iran, but it never turns out to really be a boat after all.
 
[paraphrasing] The 6-day creation simply appears to be billions of years old, but it really was six days.

If that were true, then what exactly was God's purpose in laying down a microscopic layer of iridium across the entire globe. Leaving aside scientific theories1 and concentrating on observable facts instead. All dinosaur fossils (including large and small dinosaurs) have been found beneath this world-wide layer of iridium. All human fossils and all great ape fossils have been found above this layer. If the Earth were as young as you assert, then it would seem that all the dinosaurs drowned, a layer of iridium was deposited and then all the human drowned. What would be God's purpose in segregating the bones of different species in this manner?

Furthermore, what would God's purpose be in providing more than 100,000 years of uninterrupted layers of seasonal ice in Antarctica?

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
(1) I never got an answer to post # 726 in which I mistakenly claimed I understood your views on science. What exactly are your views on science in general and scientists in particular?
 

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