Merged No more algebra?

[Hazel]

As usual, students have trouble learning something? Remove the requirement that they learn it. Or, at least try! We have already eliminated geography, elementary school history, spelling, grammar, foreign languages, art, music, even penmanship for heavens's sake. I don't know what else. Now we must eliminate requirements for those subjects that help develop logical thinking skills.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/29/o...?_r=1&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20120729

 

[JJM 777]

I always understood that the seemingly unnecessary math in nearly every curriculum is put there with the motive that only the logically smartest (from an IQ point of view) people survive the studies and graduate into the said profession. I understand the concern for example in medical doctoral studies -- it feels safer to trust my life in the hands of the smartest top 10% of humans.

If this is the motive behind it, you could save everyone´s time by replacing years of unnecessary math with one IQ test and that´s it.

Notably some fields have lesser math requirements -- apparently these are the professions which are deemed suitable for dummies too.

 

[Hazel]

I always understood that the seemingly unnecessary math in nearly every curriculum is put there with the motive that only the logically smartest (from an IQ point of view) people survive the studies and graduate into the said profession. I understand the concern for example in medical doctoral studies -- it feels safer to trust my life in the hands of the smartest top 10% of humans.

If this is the motive behind it, you could save everyone´s time by replacing years of unnecessary math with one IQ test and that´s it.

Notably some fields have lesser math requirements -- apparently these are the professions which are deemed suitable for dummies too.

Or just teach all six-year-olds how to play rugby. I'm exaggerating a bit but, seriously, aren't our schools fast becoming nothing more than sports havens?

Speaking of sports, even physical education has been eliminated and only the best students are allowed to play rugby, baseball, etc. So, there we go again.

I was no genius at algebra and geometry, goodness knows, but what little I gleaned from them has stood me in good stead a time or two.

 

[Bikewer]

Now they do this? 50 years after I suffered through Algebra 1 in high school and never did understand what the devil it was all about....
To this day I don't understand what a "set" is, and when they said "quadratic equation" I just threw up my hands and became one of the innumerate.

 

[Dancing David]

As usual, students have trouble learning something? Remove the requirement that they learn it. Or, at least try! We have already eliminated geography, elementary school history, spelling, grammar, foreign languages, art, music, even penmanship for heavens's sake. I don't know what else. Now we must eliminate requirements for those subjects that help develop logical thinking skills.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/29/o...?_r=1&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20120729

Um , seems to be a pure editorial, totally unconnected to modern math education in K-12

 

[Hazel]

Um , seems to be a pure editorial, totally unconnected to modern math education in K-12

He may be trying to say that but I still see it as part of the general dumbing down of education. It starts at one point and soon becomes a snowball. It simply says "if something is too hard for students, don't require it". Some years ago, a group of university students rebelled at having to read Shakespeare. The Dean supported them and told the professor that he was asking too much of his students. Shakespeare was cancelled.

There are too many examples. But a taste of every area of education is a good thing and has multiple advantages. I shall never back down on that.

 

[psionl0]

If you dumb down education then you can employ cheaper teachers.

 

[Beerina]

Don't worry -- as the masses get stupider and stupider, they'll just make sure they elect people of sufficient intellect to wisely care for them, recognizing their own shortcomings.

 

[Hazel]

Don't worry -- as the masses get stupider and stupider, they'll just make sure they elect people of sufficient intellect to wisely care for them, recognizing their own shortcomings.

 

[fuelair]

Don't worry -- as the masses get stupider and stupider, they'll just make sure they elect people of sufficient intellect to wisely care for them, recognizing their own shortcomings.

Yep, that's where the republickers have been aiming for some over 20 years now.

 

[ddt]

From page 2:

(How many college graduates remember what Fermat’s dilemma was all about?)

I've never before heard of "Fermat's dilemma", and I have an M.Sc. in math. Does the writer perchance mean Fermat's Last Theorem? (and that's a theorem so elementary in its formulation that every high-school graduate should be able to grasp it).

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The Betas don't want to learn, and the Gammas can't, so only the Alphas should get a good education.

(Direct from His Flivver.)

 

[Rasmus]

From page 2:

I've never before heard of "Fermat's dilemma", and I have an M.Sc. in math. Does the writer perchance mean Fermat's Last Theorem? (and that's a theorem so elementary in its formulation that every high-school graduate should be able to grasp it).

Grasp the formulation? Yes.
Remember it? Not me, at least.
Understand the significance? Guess I shouldn't have made it to university...

 

[Mark6]

I just googled "Fermat's dilemma" and got five hits.

All of them are this NYT article.

Yes, I would say the reporter meant "Fermat's Last Theorem".

Unless Fermat's dilemma was finding enough room in the margins to write the proof!

 

[Hazel]

I just googled "Fermat's dilemma" and got five hits.

All of them are this NYT article.

Yes, I would say the reporter meant "Fermat's Last Theorem".

Unless Fermat's dilemma was finding enough room in the margins to write the proof!

Maybe his dilemma was trying to prove himself wrong. Or, maybe just trying to understand what he had written.

 

[ddt]

Grasp the formulation? Yes.
Remember it? Not me, at least.
Understand the significance? Guess I shouldn't have made it to university...

Fair enough - as to the significance, I couldn't tell you either - mainly that 400 years of searching for it has produced a lot of other interesting number theory.

And I don't think I've heard of it in high school. But if someone had, I'd expect at least to remember that it was a theorem and maybe the story about the margin.

And certainly the guy in the op-ed should know. He cites one thing about the subject he's discussing and he shows he doesn't know what he's talking about, and on quite a fundamental level: a "dilemma" would be something like a paradox or a philosophical problem, quite something else than a theorem.

Here's another gem from the third page:

But there is no reason to force them to grasp vectorial angles and discontinuous functions

Sorry, "vectorial angle" belongs to geometry and "discontinuous function" belongs to calculus. I thought we were discussing algebra?

The guy doesn't know what he's talking about. Why should anyone take him seriously?

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Can't we do this with almost every subject? Is knowledge of ancient South American society necessary? Is knowledge of The Great Gatsby necessary?

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Fair enough - as to the significance, I couldn't tell you either - mainly that 400 years of searching for it has produced a lot of other interesting number theory.

And I don't think I've heard of it in high school. But if someone had, I'd expect at least to remember that it was a theorem and maybe the story about the margin.

And certainly the guy in the op-ed should know. He cites one thing about the subject he's discussing and he shows he doesn't know what he's talking about, and on quite a fundamental level: a "dilemma" would be something like a paradox or a philosophical problem, quite something else than a theorem.

Here's another gem from the third page:

Sorry, "vectorial angle" belongs to geometry and "discontinuous function" belongs to calculus. I thought we were discussing algebra?

The guy doesn't know what he's talking about. Why should anyone take him seriously?

All of this too. Algebra is "solving for x", which I find to be extremely common in life.

And I only learned about Fermat in Elementary Number Theory in university...

And I know my high school had a jumble of different courses to take. I took the high-level Geo-Trig and Calculus courses, but there were plenty of other ones for people not as skilled or interested.

 

[Rasmus]

Fair enough - as to the significance, I couldn't tell you either - mainly that 400 years of searching for it has produced a lot of other interesting number theory.

And I don't think I've heard of it in high school. But if someone had, I'd expect at least to remember that it was a theorem and maybe the story about the margin.

I certainly couldn't remember it. I have no idea if I was ever introduced to the problem in school, but I know I've read about it since. And I still couldn't remember.

I wouldn't be overly surprised to hear that cryptographers are quite happy knowing that Fermat was right - but that's really just a guess. but that certain numbers cannot work together in particular way seems potentially useful.

And certainly the guy in the op-ed should know.

Yes!

The whole piece is just a text book case of the Dunning Kruger Effect: "I don't understand maths, and I think that's just fine because people don't need to understand maths." Unless you understand it, there is nothing that qualifies you to make the assessment.

He cites one thing about the subject he's discussing and he shows he doesn't know what he's talking about, and on quite a fundamental level: a "dilemma" would be something like a paradox or a philosophical problem, quite something else than a theorem.

A philosophical problem, specifically. A paradox has two or more contradicting things in it that shouldn't be possible at the same time, a dilemma forces a choice on you where all the options and outcomes are undesirable and no good or desirable options are present.

I agree that you are highly unlikely to ever encounter a dilemma in the field of mathematics.

Here's another gem from the third page:

Sorry, "vectorial angle" belongs to geometry and "discontinuous function" belongs to calculus. I thought we were discussing algebra?

The guy doesn't know what he's talking about. Why should anyone take him seriously?

People will take him seriously, because they are bad at maths.

I think if a large portion of people struggles with a particular subject, then there is a problem. And I think the question is fair: Do we have to teach this, and if not, should it still be taught as part of a balanced education, anyway?"

But those are hardly the first or the only questions that should be asked.

 

[Dancing David]

He may be trying to say that but I still see it as part of the general dumbing down of education. It starts at one point and soon becomes a snowball. It simply says "if something is too hard for students, don't require it". Some years ago, a group of university students rebelled at having to read Shakespeare. The Dean supported them and told the professor that he was asking too much of his students. Shakespeare was cancelled.

There are too many examples. But a taste of every area of education is a good thing and has multiple advantages. I shall never back down on that.

I disagree because I work in K-5 and have a son in high school. the fact that they may not include Shakespeare is not a rule out in favor of dumbing down the curricula. The schools may be trying something more accessible, I am a fan of language and reading, I find Shakespeare difficult and boring many times. Hamlet is about the easiest read outside of some of teh comedies.

Now how many colleges have changed that I don't know (I suspect an outlier), but I am familiar with the books my son reads in high school, they frequently cover modern but difficult material none the less. Beloved is on his list this year. Now the books that the district requires for everyone in a grade level are a little less challenging by and large There Are No Children Here, The Absolutely True Diary of a Part Time Indian, and The Kite Runner. And that last one is an optional read with an opt out alternative.

But in his freshman lit class at HS they read some challenging material like the Odyssey and Things Fall Apart.