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No Fly zones over Libya?

The problem with Rolling Thunder was that every target (even targets of opportunity) had to be approved by the White House, and the frequent breaks in air strikes intended to give Hanoi a chance to sue for peace instead simply gave them time to rebuild, move assets, and beef up air defenses.
That was only one problem, and not the main one.

Rolling Thunder depended for success on the North Vietnamese government's willingness to give up, leaving the final choice up to the enemy. When they decided not to cooperate, the operation failed.

If Gaddafi gives up he and his family are most likely dead men, so expecting him to do so is risky. His forces may be more cooperative, but that remains to be seen.
 
I see Kuhdaffy hung by his heels from a battlement or equivalent, still alive as each of his sons has a rope placed around his neck that is tied to one of Kuhdaffy's limbs and is then pushed off the battlement. Give the family a littl;e time to ponder where they might have gone wrong - with the son's taking a short look at why they ever neglected the patricide thing.
 
I see Kuhdaffy hung by his heels from a battlement or equivalent, still alive as each of his sons has a rope placed around his neck that is tied to one of Kuhdaffy's limbs and is then pushed off the battlement. Give the family a littl;e time to ponder where they might have gone wrong - with the son's taking a short look at why they ever neglected the patricide thing.
At the moment Gadaffi's forces are fighting inside Bengazi - pretty safe from tactical air strikes there.

If they succeed to take the city, the rebels may not have the power to push Gadaffi back to Tripoli for the foreseeable future, even with serious tactical air support.

Then Gadaffi can last for a very long time, and we're stuck with an open-ended military operation.
 
I like David Cameron.

He said State Multiculturalism is a failure and that it should be replaced by active, muscular liberalism. I can dig that.

In Parliament yesterday, on the subject of intervention in Libya, Labor MP Jeremy Corbyn said "What about Saudi Arabia? What about Yemen? What about...." and went through a list of Arab dictatorships in a so-called "gotcha".



Cameron said "Just because we can't do the right thing everywhere, doesn't mean we shouldn't do the right thing somewhere." I'm gonna use that from now on.

Cameron was right not to take this sort of crap from Jeremy Corbyn. Corbyn is a member of the radical "Stop the War Coalition". He invited Hamas and Hezbollah terrorists into British Parliament House for a speaking tour. He supports the Tamil Tigers, who invented suicide bombing and press-gang child soldiers into service. He shills for Press-TV, the foreign propaganda wing of the theocracy in Iran. He should be kicked out of the Labor Party like they did to George Galloway.
 
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You could certainly do the "right" thing in Bahrain. Just pick up the phone to the House of Saud.

Oh wait, you need the Saudis to cover your bottoms in the no-fly operation. Forget I said it.
 
I will. We're sending forces to prevent a genocide from happening. Stop bitching about it.

These rebels are acting in defiance of Security Council Resolution 1973 regarding the imposition of a no fly zone - but I wouldn't accuse them of committing genocide yet.
 
I like David Cameron.

He said State Multiculturalism is a failure and that it should be replaced by active, muscular liberalism. I can dig that.
"Muscular liberalism", a new term for classic imperialism, without the negative connotations. I like it - unlike most people nowadays, I don't claim to be strictly anti-imperialist*.

The problems are in the implementation.
- First, a general policy of muscular liberalism is guaranteed to boost nuclear proliferation among non-liberal nations that feel threatened.
- Second, if you consider military intervention in another country, either go in big with a clear objective, or don't go in at all. And never, ever let the success of your operation depend on the cooperation of the enemy or an unreliable ally.
- Third, these interventions are expensive and make little difference in the long term. There will always be another Saddam, it's basic human nature to have some enemies. As far as enemies go, Gadaffi is too much a coward to cause serious problems outside Libya.

* Imperialism, as defined by The Dictionary of Human Geography, is "the creation and maintenance of an unequal economic, cultural, and territorial relationship, usually between states and often in the form of an empire, based on domination and subordination."
 
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- Second, if you consider military intervention in another country, either go in big with a clear objective, or don't go in at all. And never, ever let the success of your operation depend on the cooperation of the enemy or an unreliable ally.

Don't be too despondent. You still have the justice minister.
 
Don't be too despondent. You still have the justice minister.
Just being realistic. The rebel army is untrained, undisciplined, poorly equiped, and currently appears to be getting its ass kicked in the city of Bengazi.

I seriously doubt they're able to take Tripoli anytime soon, even with air support.
 
Then perhaps a better option would have been either to lay down a realistic ceasefire proposal, ie been genuine about trying to seek a resolution with no futher violence, or prepare an evacuation strategy. Or both.

Instead the international community just burnt away any opportunity to act as a credible mediator.
 
Cameron said "Just because we can't do the right thing everywhere, doesn't mean we shouldn't do the right thing somewhere." I'm gonna use that from now on.

Yeah, that's awesome. Just make sure to the let news sources you DO trust, and whoever's running them, tell you just when that is acceptable.

Anyone - what direct evidence is there the cease-fire or no-fly zone has been broeken? "Reports" from rebel sources, and this bizarre fighter jet crash into Benghazi. That's it so far?

What the hell are we waiting for then? Let's lynch 'em!!!!
 
Then perhaps a better option would have been either to lay down a realistic ceasefire proposal, ie been genuine about trying to seek a resolution with no futher violence, or prepare an evacuation strategy. Or both.

Instead the international community just burnt away any opportunity to act as a credible mediator.
Gadaffi wants to get rid of the rebels, the rebels want to get rid of Gadaffi. Not much potential for mediation there.
 
"Muscular liberalism", a new term for classic imperialism, without the negative connotations. I like it - unlike most people nowadays, I don't claim to be strictly anti-imperialist*.

The problems are in the implementation.
- First, a general policy of muscular liberalism is guaranteed to boost nuclear proliferation among non-liberal nations that feel threatened.
- Second, if you consider military intervention in another country, either go in big with a clear objective, or don't go in at all. And never, ever let the success of your operation depend on the cooperation of the enemy or an unreliable ally.
- Third, these interventions are expensive and make little difference in the long term. There will always be another Saddam, it's basic human nature to have some enemies. As far as enemies go, Gadaffi is too much a coward to cause serious problems outside Libya.

* Imperialism, as defined by The Dictionary of Human Geography, is "the creation and maintenance of an unequal economic, cultural, and territorial relationship, usually between states and often in the form of an empire, based on domination and subordination."

He was talking about British domestic policy, towards groups that claim to "represent" Muslims and harbor reactionary, fascist views :

"Frankly, we need a lot less of the passive tolerance of recent years and much more active, muscular liberalism,"

"Let's properly judge these organisations: Do they believe in universal human rights - including for women and people of other faiths? Do they believe in equality of all before the law? Do they believe in democracy and the right of people to elect their own government? Do they encourage integration or separatism?"

"These are the sorts of questions we need to ask. Fail these tests and the presumption should be not to engage with organisations," he added.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12371994

But back on topic. The world has to police itself. I'm was happy to see France and the UK demonstrate leadership with Libya. I thought it wasn't going to happen because of China and Russia, but I was pleasantly surprised.
 
He was talking about British domestic policy, towards groups that claim to "represent" Muslims and harbor reactionary, fascist views :
Ok, so it had nothing to do with foreign military intervention in general and Libya specifically.

But back on topic. The world has to police itself. I'm was happy to see France and the UK demonstrate leadership with Libya. I thought it wasn't going to happen because of China and Russia, but I was pleasantly surprised.
Define "policing". I haven't heard any argument how it would be bad for the rest of the world to leave Libya alone.

Instead we get an open-ended military operation based on deeply flawed assumptions.
 
I like David Cameron.

He said State Multiculturalism is a failure and that it should be replaced by active, muscular liberalism. I can dig that.

Multiculturalism isn't an experiment or implemented by the state, it's simply a way of life in the UK.
 
I like David Cameron.

He said State Multiculturalism is a failure and that it should be replaced by active, muscular liberalism. I can dig that.

Multiculturalism isn't an experiment or implemented by the state, it's simply a way of life in the UK.


Although I doubt that Virus would appreciate the irony, in his defense I can think of one sense that British multiculturalism was implemented by the state. Centuries of a national policy promoting heavy-handed imperialism sustained by military misadventure around the world is the root cause of the multiculturalism in today's UK.

It's no coincidence that when an outsider criticizes British cooking they always respond with comments about the ubiquity of Indian cuisine in their cities.
 
I like David Cameron.

He said State Multiculturalism is a failure and that it should be replaced by active, muscular liberalism. I can dig that.

In Parliament yesterday, on the subject of intervention in Libya, Labor MP Jeremy Corbyn said "What about Saudi Arabia? What about Yemen? What about...." and went through a list of Arab dictatorships in a so-called "gotcha".



Cameron said "Just because we can't do the right thing everywhere, doesn't mean we shouldn't do the right thing somewhere." I'm gonna use that from now on.

Cameron was right not to take this sort of crap from Jeremy Corbyn. Corbyn is a member of the radical "Stop the War Coalition". He invited Hamas and Hezbollah terrorists into British Parliament House for a speaking tour. He supports the Tamil Tigers, who invented suicide bombing and press-gang child soldiers into service. He shills for Press-TV, the foreign propaganda wing of the theocracy in Iran. He should be kicked out of the Labor Party like they did to George Galloway.
I prefer kicking him out of an upper floor window - but then I have always had an appreciation of defenestration.:D
 
I'm glad the French took the initiative. This time the US won't be to blame if anything happens.
 

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