No Explosives Here?

[tsig]

lol! it's just completely counter-intuitive, imo.

That's why people study engineering. Intuition is not enough.

 

[MikeW]

All you have is a compass for direction.

And an autopilot. And GPS units. Don't you think it might be wise to learn what the "official story" is before you try to discredit it? Or is that just too much effort?

 

[AdinDraco]

Bump for atavisms.

Sorry, off topic stupid question - what does this mean?

 

[dtugg]

It appears that you have a terminal case of ignorance, twoofer.

Unless you were looking to dispose of evidence (planes remains)and possibly, the buildings had to go as part of the deal for whatever reason.. Who knows. The point is, it happened.

Another part of the story:

These 3 planes that made their targets went to cruising height, were taken over by men with small weapons (box cutter are razors! (Not swords) and yet not one pilot or co-pilot was able to hit this simple distress code (7700) in his key pad? It makes no sense.

Try that on uc keyboard 10key pad, 7700, its an instant
When hit, it displays HJK to ground control and us their emergency distress code (I believe was thecase?) and that is what they are trained to do. Instantly. yet, mysteriously, not one person in a cockpit was able to do this, out of 8 or 9 people was is it? not even sure, 4 flight crews!

Let's see you try to type as your throat is suddenly being slit.

All the planes went through the same scenario: they obtained cruising height, the transponders failed, they were steered to their targets, which were then hit with uncanny precision. No interference from anyone. Not NORAD, no one.

The transponders didn't fail, twoofer. Your terrorist buddies turned them off. Shows how little you know. And without the transponders the planes are just one of many blips of the radar screen making them much harder to track.

Now ask yourself. You are 30k over Ohio and have just taken over a commercial airliner with 3 other guys, u'v have never flown a jetliner, u'r young, and scared, and now your job is to find and hit the twin towers. All you have is a compass for direction.

Do you find the the towers, how?

All they had to do was enter "JFK" into the autopilot and the plane would fly itself towards NYC. Once they got close, they could have disingaged the autopilot and steered visually right into the towers. And seeing as how the towers were by far the biggest landmarks in the area and it was a clear day (and the UA 175 hijackers also had the smoke billowing the North Tower to help them) from this wouldn't have been exactly taken a Top Gun pilot to do.

Oh and ignorant ass twoofer, AA 11 and UA 175 never flew over Ohio.

This story besmirches, not just common sense, but the names of those brave professional pilots, (2 or 3 of whom were "tough Vietnam vets"), and flight crews who would have all died many times before handing over their jetliner over to terrorist scum.

Hmm. I see. So I take it that in every hijacking prior to 9/11 the crew fought the hijackers to the death? Right?

The flt 93 story makes no sense either bc the debris field was spread over many miles

Actually, the only debris that was scattered for miles were small bits of paper and such carried by the wind.

and the people extremely blasted apart,

Yeah, that's sort of what happens when a plane hits the ground at 600 mph.

yet the claim is that the plane hit ground intact

It did. The FDR proves it. Shockingly, you liars say it was faked but you, of course have zero evidence of that.

// People were on the scene immediately.

Define immediately.

 

[NutCracker]

Another part of the story:

These 3 planes that made their targets went to cruising height, were taken over by men with small weapons (box cutter are razors! (Not swords) and yet not one pilot or co-pilot was able to hit this simple distress code (7700) in his key pad? It makes no sense.

Try that on uc keyboard 10key pad, 7700, its an instant

Trutherland: the alternate reality in which what makes perfects sense does not make sense.

There is a limit to the amount of stupidity I can bear. On ignore he goes.

 

[Quad4_72]

Sorry, off topic stupid question - what does this mean?

That means someone is trying to get a thread to go back to the top of a list when it is getting too far down and people forget about it. In some cases, a thread gets bumped for posters who intentionally ignore their own thread because they are getting owned and can no longer argue their point rationally.

 

[kookbreaker]

So...how does one hit a building using an airplane 'with uncanny precision'? What makes it 'uncanny precision'?

(This is very amusing given that the second plane actually almost missed the tower)

 

[twinstead]

Does any truther have ANYTHING but simple ignorant incredulity to bring to this debate? I swear this is getting old.

 

[twinstead]

(This is very amusing given that the second plane actually almost missed the tower)

No, no no. He meant to do that. That's why it was uncanny.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

Doesn't matter that all this stuff was pulverized, and most of it sent outside the tower in an 800 foot radial pattern!

This doesn't look pulverized to me....

Furniture and paper on the other hand, neither are normally subjected to the force of a 50,000 tons of mass.

These were EACH 1350' tall, had short burning fires on a number of floors very high up in the towers.

A firefighter's nightmare. Structural damage, and 8 floors of fire on a floor that's nearly an acre in size... No sprinklers... no water... no way to contain the fire... insufficient fire protection on the affected floors... You conspiracy theorists grossly underestimate the kind of dangerous mix that was.

Have you seen the debris field?

Yup, hundred of pictures... Doesn't look very controlled does it?

YOU CANNOT JUST DISMISS THIS! (and still be viewed as reasonable by most people)

And yet here you are... dismissing the evidence... and spouting crap that has not even the remotest relevance to the engineering of these towers...

 

[BadBoy]

Just simply ignore the reality huh?
Doesn't matter that all this stuff was pulverized, and most of it sent outside the tower in an 800 foot radial pattern! These were EACH 1350' tall, had short burning fires on a number of floors very high up in the towers.
Have you seen the debris field?

YOU CANNOT JUST DISMISS THIS! (and still be viewed as reasonable by most people)
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_349174abd5befe8ed2.jpg[/qimg]

er firstly, sorry to the regulars up front for even discussing this with him, Im new to this also. I understand its old news.

atavisms, I don’t get your point here? How would you think the debris field would look if the buildings were either blown up OR crushed down. They were big buildings, they are going to make a big mess no matter what.

I would just like to say I was cruising around google videos a couple of days ago, after watching the hardfire debate with Mark Roberts (cool). The Gauge guy has other videos that are wholly misleading etc (well, what would you expect).

However, as I started to watch the crushdown over and over, it got me thinking about what would be seen in the differences between the use of explosives and a crushdown due to gravity and the crash damage.

atavisms, you need to stop for one second and think about it. The pictures you posted show a lot of debris being ejected over the sides of the building. Think about this for a second:

1. What would you think you would see (if you allow yourself the anguish of considering for just one second that a pancaking type of collapse did occur)? The outside columns getting ripped free from the internal structure? You can easily imaging that you would see what your posted images show. And of course thats easy to imagine since thats what happened. A crush down would look exactly like this would it not? If you watch it AS a crush down.

2. Second point is IF the material being sent sideways was caused by explosions, can you imagine the amount of explosives you would need! This is not controlled demolition because, as you are pointing out, stuff is getting thrown all over the place. A CD "implodes". Now, the reason truthers (I think) like the CD idea is that, to do a CD properly, you need a smaller amount of explosives thoughtfully distributed, with key columns pre cut etc. With a neat and tidy CD, gravity also plays a part. They are suggesting that these relatively small amounts of explosives were planted down the entire structure, enough to cause collapse but not enough to look like an obvious explosion. After all you wouldn’t want that because too many questions would be asked.

What you are suggesting is large amounts of explosives, enough to not just knock out key columns, but enough to turn everything into dust and eject the building debris outwards for several blocks. But theres no loud bang or obvious sudden explosion! The stuff coming out around the sides is ejected as the building falls, not just before with a large bang. If you really really think about it and watch the video, its actually obvious.

3. My last observation. Id never really looked closely before, but one of the clips zoomed in on one of the towers just as collapse is initiated. I was astonished to see the sides bow inwards as the crushdown starts, and then "ping" back moments after. I'd read on this forum about the bowing inwards and have seen several images. But the video clip actually shows the bowing, and then the walls ping back out again as the floors let go of the outer columns. It proceeds EXACTLY like the collapse described due to fires and impact damage, certainly not due to explosives.

Now, I know you have convinced yourself somethings up. But try, just for a little while starting from the point of view of a gravity assisted continuous collapse caused by fires and impact damage.

You will find everything you see is completely in line with that. There is nothing that you see that wouldnt happen if you imagine a crushdown. And the more you consider it, the more obvious it appears.

The reason people on this thread are giving you a hard time is that this is all old news. Its sooo debunked now theres no point even getting serious. There is sooo much info out there debunking it.

 

[BadBoy]

Hay atavisms

Do you see and old woman, or a young one?

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?i...al+illusions&ndsp=20&hl=en&sa=N&start=60&um=1

 

[johnny karate]

Please provide a list of witnesses and on-site investigators who believe explosives were used to bring down any of the WTC buidlings on 9/11.

bc you just dont get it! I DONT NEED ANY AUTHORITY TO TELL ME SOMETHING SO OBVIOUS!!

(there are many such witnesses. (me for one)

Thousands of people witnessed what you claim is "so obvious". Where are these "many such witnesses" who will corroborate your claims that explosives were used to destroy the WTC buildings?

 

[triforcharity]

Just simply ignore the reality huh?
Doesn't matter that all this stuff was pulverized, and most of it sent outside the tower in an 800 foot radial pattern! These were EACH 1350' tall, had short burning fires on a number of floors very high up in the towers.
Have you seen the debris field?

YOU CANNOT JUST DISMISS THIS! (and still be viewed as reasonable by most people)
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_349174abd5befe8ed2.jpg[/qimg]

Ok, than explain this car that I found?? There also seems to be some kind of metal rolling caart in there too. How about all the concrete surrounding it?? Hummm....

This next one kinda gives it some prospective.

Have I seen the debris field?? You must be new around here. I was there, and spent the next ~4 months on that pile. I knew that pile in great detail, and spent alot of time trying to find my Brothers in the pile. I pulled hundreds of body parts from that pile. I know how tall it was.

Here is a picture that gives it some more prospective.

800 foot radius, but it was in most places 6-7 storeys tall. Don't try to use that picture with me. I have a link to the original file, and its huge.

So, in conclusion, have you talked to anyone who was there??

HINT HINT!! I am one.

 

[triforcharity]

Unless you were looking to dispose of evidence (planes remains)and possibly, the buildings had to go as part of the deal for whatever reason.. Who knows. The point is, it happened.

Another part of the story:

These 3 planes that made their targets went to cruising height, were taken over by men with small weapons (box cutter are razors! (Not swords) and yet not one pilot or co-pilot was able to hit this simple distress code (7700) in his key pad? It makes no sense.

Try that on uc keyboard 10key pad, 7700, its an instant
When hit, it displays HJK to ground control and us their emergency distress code (I believe was thecase?) and that is what they are trained to do. Instantly. yet, mysteriously, not one person in a cockpit was able to do this, out of 8 or 9 people was is it? not even sure, 4 flight crews!

All the planes went through the same scenario: they obtained cruising height, the transponders failed, they were steered to their targets, which were then hit with uncanny precision. No interference from anyone. Not NORAD, no one.

Now ask yourself. You are 30k over Ohio and have just taken over a commercial airliner with 3 other guys, u'v have never flown a jetliner, u'r young, and scared, and now your job is to find and hit the twin towers. All you have is a compass for direction.

Do you find the the towers, how?

This story besmirches, not just common sense, but the names of those brave professional pilots, (2 or 3 of whom were "tough Vietnam vets"), and flight crews who would have all died many times before handing over their jetliner over to terrorist scum.

The flt 93 story makes no sense either bc the debris field was spread over many miles and the people extremely blasted apart, yet the claim is that the plane hit ground intact// People were on the scene immediately.

COMMERCIAL PILOTS LICENSE!!! Oh, and how can you type something, with two guys in the cockpit with knife, oh, and your throat is slashed....can't type much then.

BTW, all they had to do was put in the GPS cord. into the autopilot, and sit back. Plane did all the rest.

The rest I don't even caare to address, because it smells as if its been pulled from somewhere near your posterior.

 

[triforcharity]

Oh this will be fun.
<sitting back with popcorn>

you really did open a can of worms twoofie... not only did tri "see this pile" he was WORKING ON IT as a firefighter. He was THERE on 9/11. This should be fun.

Now Tri, don't get banned over this.

I won't get banned. I know his little game. Try to get me all worked up, and I will just let some of my own personal pictures do the talking.

 

[lapman]

These 3 planes that made their targets went to cruising height, were taken over by men with small weapons (box cutter are razors! (Not swords) and yet not one pilot or co-pilot was able to hit this simple distress code (7700) in his key pad? It makes no sense.

Let's strap you into a seat with very little room to maneuver and see how you do.

Try that on uc keyboard 10key pad, 7700, its an instant
When hit, it displays HJK to ground control and us their emergency distress code (I believe was thecase?) and that is what they are trained to do. Instantly. yet, mysteriously, not one person in a cockpit was able to do this, out of 8 or 9 people was is it? not even sure, 4 flight crews!

You complete lack of research skills is incredible. Try looking up what the transponder looks like. It uses 2 knobs, not a keypad. Epic Fail

All the planes went through the same scenario: they obtained cruising height, the transponders failed, they were steered to their targets, which were then hit with uncanny precision. No interference from anyone. Not NORAD, no one.

More idiocy. The transponders did not fail. 3 were put on STANDBY. Something every single pilot learns ON THE FIRST LESSON.

Now ask yourself. You are 30k over Ohio and have just taken over a commercial airliner with 3 other guys, u'v have never flown a jetliner, u'r young, and scared, and now your job is to find and hit the twin towers. All you have is a compass for direction.

2 had flown simulators at the Pan Am school. Nice try. I've flown one of those long before I had my first lesson. Not as hard as you think. All 4 were certified pilots. You probably post the "can't even rent a Cessna" lie. That was specifically for the Hudson route. The same school rented a plane to him the very next day.

Do you find the the towers, how?

There is this neat little invention called NAVIGATION THAT EVERY SINGLE CERTIFIED PILOT HAS TO KNOW BEFORE THEY CAN EVEN TAKE THEIR CHECKRIDE.

This story besmirches, not just common sense, but the names of those brave professional pilots, (2 or 3 of whom were "tough Vietnam vets"), and flight crews who would have all died many times before handing over their jetliner over to terrorist scum.

Again, let's strap you into a seat with little room to maneuver and see how you do. Of course, you ignore the fact that the hijacker "strongmen" were specifically trained for fighing in the confines of the cockpit and how to kill with small weapons like a boxcutter.

The flt 93 story makes no sense either bc the debris field was spread over many miles and the people extremely blasted apart, yet the claim is that the plane hit ground intact// People were on the scene immediately.

This one is just one big lie that has been covered way too many times to address here. No need to answer. Try using the search function.

 

[Scott Sommers]

These 3 planes that made their targets went to cruising height, were taken over by men with small weapons (box cutter are razors! (Not swords) and yet not one pilot or co-pilot was able to hit this simple distress code (7700) in his key pad? It makes no sense.

I guess you're implying that this was the sort of dangerous situation a pilot should be able to handle, being threatened with something as pathetic as a 'box cutter'. Dylan Avery made the same point in one of his interviews.

I don't know what kind of person you are. I've trained martial arts and combat sports for most of my adult life. I've studied knife fighting with the Dog Brothers. No threat intended, but my guess is that I could take you apart like a dead chicken. Edged weapons are bad news. You're going to get cut.

I'd like to see you take on someone - anyone - armed with a box cutter. Get someone to send me the video after they've finished cleaning you off the walls and I'll make sure it gets posted. A better idea would be to just stop this stupidity about how 'box cutters' aren't scary as Hell.

 

[TruthersLie]

I guess you're implying that this was the sort of dangerous situation a pilot should be able to handle, being threatened with something as pathetic as a 'box cutter'. Dylan Avery made the same point in one of his interviews.

I don't know what kind of person you are. I've trained martial arts and combat sports for most of my adult life. I've studied knife fighting with the Dog Brothers. No threat intended, but my guess is that I could take you apart like a dead chicken. Edged weapons are bad news. You're going to get cut.

I'd like to see you take on someone - anyone - armed with a box cutter. Get someone to send me the video after they've finished cleaning you off the walls and I'll make sure it gets posted. A better idea would be to just stop this stupidity about how 'box cutters' aren't scary as Hell.

Scott, what makes it even funnier is that Ata obviously has NO idea what the cockpit of a 757/767 looks like. The pilots would have been in a seat where they couldn't even turn around. Where they have to duck down and climb over the consoles and are basically STUCK in place being attacked by 4 or 5 folks with blades... absolutely amazing.

it isn't like it would have been a standup fight in the cockpit mano a mano... no. Get them to open the door, tell the pilots you don't want to hurt them,walk up to them and start telling them demands, and quickly use that razor sharp boxcutter to stab them in the throat/slice their throats. Absolutely amazing.

You are in taiwan... when I was in china and japan ALL of my students carried boxcutters for protection. As a weapon in a confined space they are deadly.

 

[Longfellow]

been there. . .done that. . .again and again and again

Atavism
-noun
1. Biology.
a. the reappearance in an individual of characteristics of some remote ancestor that have been absent in intervening generations.
b. an individual embodying such a reversion.
2. reversion to an earlier type; throwback.

I know full well why atavism's posts smack of familiarity (nice user-name *wink) and I have no doubt that most of the folks here know why as well. And it isn't just the fact that the 'truth movement' hasn't had any new talking points in, literally, years. But I'll be damned if I'm going to dig through the banned posters database and try to match syntax. It just isn't worth it. History has shown again and again that they'll simply re-register a different sock and more-or-less pick up where they left off so what's the point?

But what does still bother me somewhat is the otherwise bright people here who just can't seem to resist an obvious troll.