NIST blew WTC7 Stage 1 analysis

Do you mean the "What actually impacts What ?" flaw ?...
No but that is a related issue. I have called it "anachronism" meaning a timing issue - more accurately it is a sequencing issue.

"Missing Jolt" is based on the concept that the top prt of tower is moving down and should jolt when it strikes the part below.

Now setting aside for now the McQueen/Szamboti circular presumption that a bit of columns had been removed and recalling that I explain from the perspective of mechanism.

The fact that the top bit is falling means that the columns have already failed and therefore the ends which are supposed to come into contact with a jolt have already passed each other. That's the guts of the sequencing error. If the top part of tower is descending it is already too late for the impact to occur. We can deal with the exceptions and "what ifs" separately if needed - I've posted fuller details several times but not recorded where. Any of the threads where I have engaged Tony Sz probably the place.

...I suggest "level of effort" and "mistakes" are separate. Avoidable mistakes were made, which didn't change effort applied, but did affect the results.
I agree with the distinction but the concept of "good enough" is more complicated than that one factor.
 
If WTC7 was structurally sound immediately prior to descent, and "Instantaneous removal of 8 stories worth of supporting structure"/"explosives were detonated"/"wires were pulled"/"space beams were switched on" to bring it down immediately afterwards...then the building would not already be in motion minutes prior to release.

It would be static. Sound. It wasn't. Early motion data is the clearest replicable confirmation of the behaviour of the building during the lead up to release....
Aren't you risking a "blue sky" response there femr. :D
 
If WTC7 was structurally sound immediately prior to descent, and "Instantaneous removal of 8 stories worth of supporting structure"/"explosives were detonated"/"wires were pulled"/"space beams were switched on" to bring it down immediately afterwards...then the building would not already be in motion minutes prior to release.

It would be static. Sound. It wasn't. Early motion data is the clearest replicable confirmation of the behaviour of the building during the lead up to release.

Assertions about building behaviour without that real-world data will always be seen as conjecture by those being asked to consider such assertions.

Early Motion data. Data about the behaviour of the actual building.
Got it. :)

Still doesn't help in "debunking". The "bunk" was never worth considering in the first place nor would the "bunkers" care. A bit of a paradox. ;)
 
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If WTC7 was structurally sound immediately prior to descent, and "Instantaneous removal of 8 stories worth of supporting structure"/"explosives were detonated"/"wires were pulled"/"space beams were switched on" to bring it down immediately afterwards...then the building would not already be in motion minutes prior to release.

It would be static. Sound. It wasn't. Early motion data is the clearest replicable confirmation of the behaviour of the building during the lead up to release.

Assertions about building behaviour without that real-world data will always be seen as conjecture by those being asked to consider such assertions.

Early Motion data. Data about the behaviour of the actual building.

With all due respect, you don't understand structural engineering. Therefore, you will never fully understand what happened to Building 7.
 
With all due respect, you don't understand structural engineering. Therefore, you will never fully understand what happened to Building 7.
I'm curious what this has to do with his post? Are you saying the movement he documents don't coincide with what is structural accepted (described by NIST)? :confused:
 
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With all due respect, you don't understand structural engineering. Therefore, you will never fully understand what happened to Building 7.
What you think I understand, or not, is irrelevant.

I guess you are struggling to verbalise the cause of the early motion.

With all due respect, give a whirl...
 
Motion is not important...

I'm a licensed Structural Engineer (SE), and your not.

I understand the collapse, you never will...with all due respect.
What does this have to do with his work? What does he get wrong?

femr2: I don't think you need the help but, this is even getting on my nerves.
 
They tried to assist and it fed the dishonesty of the truth movement - the crap about Chandler "forced" NIST to "admit" freefall. Still we have had a bit of fun explaining the free body physics and why parts of a falling sub-system can exceed G. And, in doing that, we revealed that quite a few "debunkers" also get a bit lost in the basics so "truthers" aren't the only ones who don't comprehend basic physics.
I agree but I see it as part of a broader situation.

The "truth" movement was desperate to prove CD at WTC for whatever dishonest or deluded reasons. The mechanisms of the collapses of the Twins were very much mostly in view - only two critical stages with three ways of introducing CD. (Pre weakening of the core, initiation stage and/or progression or "global collapse" stage.) All of those pretty much visible so hard to hide CD and easy to show why "natural" collapse occurred and why no CD was needed. Leading through to strong indications that there was no CD - allowing for the logic problem of cannot prove a negative. So claiming CD with the twins was always going to be a losing tactic despite the debate being dragged out for many years.

With CD of the Twins easily rebutted the situation with WTC7 was a boon to the truthers. All the mechanisms were hidden. Remember that the TM has never put forward a pro CD hypothesis worthy of the name "hypothesis" and meeting prima-facie standard of a "case to answer". All their claims AFAIK rely on reversing burden of proof - in the form of "It looked like CD - you debunkers prove it wasn't". OR "there was therm*te in the dust prove it wasn't therm*te before we even get to prove it wasn't CD".

And lots of us gullible debunkers fall for the trap because we like explaining sciency (engineering forensic) things. Reality says that there is no truther claim worthy of response. "Genuine truthers" - those who realy do not understand - are satisfied with reasoned explanations. But we don't see any "genuine truthers" around forums these days. Most are playing the trolling game and pretending to not understand so basically they are dishonest game players.

And the point I try to make here is that WTC7 collapse suited the dishonest game players or deluded truthers because nearly all the details were hidden. They could keep us going round in circles as we accepted "reverse burden of proof" and attempted the logical impossible of proving a (lot of) negative(s).

Not that many truthers are intelligent enough to make that a deliberate strategy. The reason many of them are truthers is that they cannot think anyway but that is another topic which we don't discuss for some reason...:o I've posted the concept about half a dozen times and got no response from either side. :rolleyes:
As we say here:

Olé.
 
Motion is irrelevant...

I stand by my comments, with all due respect.
That makes no sense what so ever. He documents movement that complements and in many ways bolsters the NIST findings. I don't understand why anyone would have a problem with this. :boggled:

Have you even looked at his work?
 
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Motion is not important...
Incorrect.

It would appear you prefer not to explain the cause of the recorded motion of WTC7 prior to release. Why ?

I'm a licensed Structural Engineer (SE), and your not.
Again, what you think I know/do not know, or am/am not is utterly irrelevant.

It's "you're" by the way :(

I understand the collapse, you never will...with all due respect.
ROFL. The cloudless daytime sky is blue ! :)

MileHighMadness said:
motion is irrelevant
Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated :)
 
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