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Next Labour Leader

Most likely Labour Leader

  • Chuka Umunna

    Votes: 13 38.2%

  • Andy Burnham

    Votes: 8 23.5%

  • Yvette Cooper

    Votes: 5 14.7%

  • Dan Jarvis

    Votes: 4 11.8%

  • Tristram Hunt

    Votes: 1 2.9%

  • Liz Kendall

    Votes: 1 2.9%

  • David Miliband

    Votes: 1 2.9%

  • Other

    Votes: 1 2.9%

  • Keith Vaz

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    34
Francesca R said:
Never heard of false consciousness. What is that?
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Originally from the idea of 'hegemony' and the way it hijacks language and thought so that arguments contrary to it appear automatically invalid and redundant.

Try making a good argument for Marxism these days - as an example.
 
Francesca R said:
Never heard of false consciousness. What is that?
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A Marxist term. Not your sort of thing at all, I would suppose.
False consciousness is a term used by some Marxists for the way in which material, ideological and institutional processes in capitalist society mislead members of the proletariat. These processes are said to hide the true relations of forces between classes and the real state of affairs regarding the development of pre-socialist society (relative to the secular development of human society in general).
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We have here a poll which includes 5 people who aren't in the race, including the one with the highest number of votes, and is missing a contender who is in the race. With all that irrelevency, no wonder some feel that Marxist theory is worthwhile bringing into the discussion.
 
MikeG said:
We have here a poll which includes 5 people who aren't in the race, including the one with the highest number of votes, and is missing a contender who is in the race. With all that irrelevency, no wonder some feel that Marxist theory is worthwhile bringing into the discussion.
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Not brought in very sympathetically.
angrysoba said:
Same with "false consciousness" which has various guises which have been prominent on this forum lately.

I prefer the SNP's strategy even if I don't want what they do, which is simply to organize better and have clear goals.

Of course, many leftists (and even soppy wet liberals) still cling to something like an idea of the hard left's "false consciousness".
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Anyway, given that it's here, Francesca R is entitled to know what it is.
 
Craig B said:
Not brought in very sympathetically. Anyway, given that it's here, Francesca R is entitled to know what it is.
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With her description of it as "bad loserism", sounds like she has a good handle on it.
 
Not knowing the virtually inpenetrable jargon of Marxism and its apologists should be counted as a positive, not a negative.
 
MikeG said:
Not knowing the virtually inpenetrable jargon of Marxism and its apologists should be counted as a positive, not a negative.
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But knowing while not knowing that you know is a positive because it is a double negative.
 
As far as I can tell, some are accusing Labour of believing that those who don't vote for it and who are not obviously Tory toffs must be deluded. Which would be a delusion. Perhaps it is more common among the leftist psyche which tends to believe that the state knows better than the individual. Although that certainly isn't exclusively a leftist belief.

I don't think such silliness is going to drive the Labour party.
 
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asydhouse said:
I think more people agree with me than not that the tories are a threat to the well-being of our society. And yet Labour cave and follow them and tabloid "issues", instead of standing for their values, chasing votes instead of making their case. How many voted Tory? Only 66% turnout, so they only had around roughly 20% of the voters, and Labour agree with them that "the people" have massively supported them!

I feel they have deserted us.

Our useless first past the post system is now exposing us to being isolated in Europe and powerless and crippled as an economy, all due to the politics of fear, as people have said.

I feel disenfranchised because I literally have no stake in this country: I've no children, no job, no reason to involve myself in mainstream culture, no political voice speaking for my outlook on life, which is that of a life-long outsider poet with utopian socialist ideals (emigrated as a 4 year old, continued disruption and three changes of country by the age of 16 when I returned to Britain and subsequent traveling in other countries).

I've no affinity for marketing or business, and it seems that if you aren't into that you have no validity in mainstream society. (Even science is snarled in the marketing and money games, and anyway I wasn't turned onto science until too late for me to find a career there, which now I know is a possible way to live… School never made science relevant to me or made me to realise the value of engaging in it as a working life, which I sort of regret now.)

I feel like damaged goods, and my only affinity is with the drop outs and ravers and squatters and free festival travellers, the people Thatcher and the Tories made their enemies by literally attacking us with masses of police. I'm an outlaw because I use psychedelic drugs, and that is such a stupid situation and such a massive injustice that I feel persecuted and disrespected.

Although I can vote, my vote is useless.

I'd say I am disenfranchised. And this election result means we are risking losing every bit of compassionate infrastructure over the next 5 years… and I won't even be able to live in Europe again, where at least I could sleep on a beach in Spain and busk for food, should the need arise… if Cameron's playing politics with his EU referendum backfires on him. Frankly I'm not convinced the English masses aren't stupid enough to let that happen.

I expect disaster, and hope without any sense of ability to affect it that it turns out better than it might.

Hoping helpless and powerless. I withdraw from "politics" and simply be a poet looking on in sorrow and radical rage from time to time. The personal is political. It's all I've got.
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I had no idea Rik from the Young Ones posted on here!
 
I think social media has contributed a lot to Labours disbelief that they lost. A lot of social media sites do seem to be Labour echo chambers where everyone joins in the mantra that people who don't votes Labour are evil Tory scum. Given that anyone reading that who is planning on voting Tory isn't going to want to get all the abuse that comes with disagreeing with them they don't engage and quietly vote Tory at the ballot box. I'm not including here in that as people can actually have a reasonably civilised debate here but more Facebook, Twitter ect.
 
Francesca R said:
As far as I can tell, some are accusing Labour of believing that those who don't vote for it and who are not obviously Tory toffs must be deluded. Which would be a delusion. Perhaps it is more common among the leftist psyche which tends to believe that the state knows better than the individual. Although that certainly isn't exclusively a leftist belief.

I don't think such silliness is going to drive the Labour party.
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You think that the LP is a Left party given to the application of Marxist dogmas? I fear you may have a "false consciousness" of the nature of that organisation.
 
@ CraigB: You continue to show very little ability to apprehend what has been written. I wrote nothing of what you suggest in your question.

(I shall not make a habit of pointing this out I will simply not respond)
 
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Craig B said:
But knowing while not knowing that you know is a positive because it is a double negative.
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I'll take it that you aren't an expert in Palladian architecture. I take it that you know that. Therefore, by your logic, this is a positive attribute.

I suggest you avoid trying to use logic as it doesn't appear to suit you.

Francesca R said:
@ CraigB: You continue to show very little ability to apprehend what has been written........
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Comprehend, maybe? ;)
 
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No hint of irony in Len McCluskey stating it is essential that the correct Labour leader emerges. His shop cocked that up last time.
 
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