New perspectives on Relativity

[P.S.A.]

Let's see...

There is no universal/absolute time or space.
There is no universal/absolute now.

This presents a problem for all you realists or materialists (or bozos). You see, a real universe with real things separated by real space and real time, is a universe with absolute time and absolute space and a real 'now'.

I'm actually enjoying this, regardless of the plonkers.

I'm sure you are enjoying it. Manic depressives often find themselves laughing at things for no logical reason, such as your claims about what a "real" universe is. Written to that author yet, to see if he agrees with you? No?

Answer the question though. That space ship. When it arrives, is it absolutely the same as when it left, down to every single atoms position and energy state? Yes or no?

 

[RussDill]

Does it? Have you been talking to walls again?
Do you know what an experience is?
Do you realise that you have to be real to have an experience?
Can you prove that matter is real?

It is clear that matter experiences the passage of time, particles decay, etc.

The discussion is about laws that apply to the universe around us, so can the "Can you prove that matter is real", it isn't relevant here.

Really, Gawd knows what you were talking about in your philosophy classes for 3 years. But it's obvious to me that you are to philosophy what Hitler was to world peace.

I see you still cling to you ad hominems like a ...eh, I' won't go there with you.

 

[Z]

Universal 'God'?

Let's for the sake of fun, discuss God in the same manner as the Universe.

Before we begin: 'Universal' here means 'within the Universe'. 'Perception' is the combination of sensory input, thoughts, feelings, dreams, concepts, etc - everything which occurs 'within our awareness'.

This argument to be presented in the latest lifegazer logic.(TM) lifegazer, 2005)

Now, as perceived, each person perceives God (conceptually) in different ways. For example, Darat perceives no God at all. lifegazer perceives God as singular, ultimate self. 1inChrist perceives a terrible, vengeful God who will burn those who disagree with him. I perceive God as an extra-real essence that interacts with reality via probabilities.

As such, as perceived, there is no absolute 'God'.

No absolute God = no universal God.

No universal God = no God within the universe.

Yep - that's how your argument system runs, lg = If we don't share the same (perception of) God, then God cannot exist... by your own system of logic.

Wow, that was fun! Anyone else want to take a stab at it?

 

[P.S.A.]

Does it? Have you been talking to walls again?
Do you know what an experience is?
Do you realise that you have to be real to have an experience?
Can you prove that matter is real?

Really, Gawd knows what you were talking about in your philosophy classes for 3 years. But it's obvious to me that you are to philosophy what Hitler was to world peace.

Ha ha ha haaa....

Can you spot the self contradictory statement in this latest wibble, lunatic fans?

You have to be real to have an experience, yes?
God is Real.
I am God. I am real.
God is in fact everything. Therefore...

Anyone want to clue him in on that final step?

Can you prove I'M real lifegazer?
Then prove what I'm made of?
Then prove that this is DIFFERENT from what everything else in the dream is made of?
And thus prove that God... aha ha ha haaaa

Seriously, get help Lifegazer. Your logic impresses no one else but you, because no one else is so damaged that they think you are making logical points when you clearly are not.

I've even been encouraging you to attack my degree, because every time you do, it's building up to the moment when I rummage out the quotes about how you admire people with such degrees, so I can point and laugh at your hypocrisy... yet again. Do you think I care what you think about my academic past? I simply know how people with compulsive disorders act... how to encourage them (but more usually not encourage, but with you I make the exception) to focus on something and obsess about it... and I've been using it to illustrate why you are so very, very ill.

 

[lifegazer]

I've even been encouraging you to attack my degree, because every time you do, it's building up to the moment when I rummage out the quotes about how you admire people with such degrees, so I can point and laugh at your hypocrisy... yet again.

Don't be silly. I don't "admire" people with philosophy degrees. I just become hopeful that the quality of the conversation might improve. After 'meeting' you, I don't think I'll ever think like that again.

 

[lifegazer]

It is clear that matter experiences the passage of time, particles decay, etc.

No Russ. When you observe your sensations and they give you the internal impression of a decaying particle, then it is you who has had the experience of seeing (through instrumentation) a decaying particle.

The discussion is about laws that apply to the universe around us, so can the "Can you prove that matter is real", it isn't relevant here.

Of course it's relevant. Only real things can have experiences.

 

[Z]

The only way the quality of conversation might improve, is if you improve your arguments, listen to the criticism given, and actually consider the possibility that you are wrong.

Otherwise, no improvement is possible.

 

[Atlas]

Big deal. Just because I haven't mentioned something doesn't mean that it isn't so. Gravity affects space and time. Deal with it.


(1) No universal time = zero time in the universe.
(2) The absence of universal space = zero space in the universe.
(3) 1 + 2 = no real universe.

How do these 2 quotes square. Gravity affect it but it's not real??

 

[P.S.A.]

Don't be silly. I don't "admire" people with philosophy degrees. I just become hopeful that the quality of the conversation might improve. After 'meeting' you, I don't think I'll ever think like that again.

You never think like anything consistently for very long. Doing so corners you into making statements you can't defend. You don't admire anyone Lifegazer, except yourself.

Which... OH NO!... now disproves your statements about your religion leading to the death of Ego. Oh, and it disproves all that stuff about loving your fellow man when you discover he's God, just like you...

Well, here I am Lifegazer. PSA is God. LOVE ME!

What's that? You can't? In fact you won't love anyone with a Philosophy degree from now on?

He he heeee

But don't worry, I'll tell God you didn't mean to kill him by being such a prejudicial git to so many parts of him. I'm sure he'll forgive you. After all, He's me, so he's bound to!

He he heeee

again!

 

[Wudang]

Does anyone know of a case where lifegazer had a choice of his philosophy or his ego and chose the former?

What about the other way around?

 

[RussDill]

No Russ. When you observe your sensations and they give you the internal impression of a decaying particle, then it is you who has had the experience of seeing (through instrumentation) a decaying particle.

Since your philosophy claims that our experience of time is an illusion, how is the particle experiencing the passage of time any less or more of an illusion? Or put another way, the effect of time on a particle is just as real as the effect of time on ourselves.

 

[RussDill]

How do these 2 quotes square. Gravity affect it but it's not real??

It's because anytime he's discussing physics, reality, and all that to the benifit of his philosophy, it all has real implications etc. Whenever something is against his philosophy, or someone points out an error, its just an illusion and doesn't matter.

 

[hodgy]

Russ - what's that thing on your head?

 

[lifegazer]

Facts to ponder whilst you go to sleep.

FACTS:
(1) We now know that the world we perceive is internal to awareness/ourselves.
(2) We now know that we perceive the SOL to be a constant (numerical value) because the actual source of that light is not the object we perceive, but the Mind which creates the sensation of light - and hence the perception of that object.
(3) We know that there is no such thing as absolute/universal space-time. Einstein told us this. Yet without the existence of universal spacetime, there is no universe external to our own being. I.e., there can be no universe "out there".

These are truly significant facts which have the capacity to change everything. There's a burden of responsibility upon your shoulders which few - if any of you - have even acknowledged. That responsibility is to the truth. It doesn't matter whether you dislike me. It doesn't matter whether I won't produce a miracle for you. It doesn't matter whether accepting these facts is a scarey prospect. You have to grow up and face these facts that I have presented to you because they are true and because they are profoundly significant with regards the future of [the perception of being] humanity.

 

[RussDill]

Russ - what's that thing on your head?

Land Warrior

 

[RussDill]

Re: Facts to ponder whilst you go to sleep.

FACTS:
(1) We now know that the world we perceive is internal to awareness/ourselves.

Nope, sorry, even your philosophy has the reality we perceive being laid out by god, and he feeds us perceptions of that reality. So in your philosophy even, the word we perceive is external to our own awareness.

Add to that, you can't prove it either way anyway.

(2) We now know that we perceive the SOL to be a constant (numerical value) because the actual source of that light is not the object we perceive, but the Mind which creates the sensation of light - and hence the perception of that object.

Um..no, the speed of light is a constant in all reference frame because it is made up of an electromagnetic wave, maybe you should look into it.

And again, your speed of light applies equally to sound.

(3) We know that there is no such thing as absolute/universal space-time. Einstein told us this.

Again, no, he gave us universal spacetime. He showed that our perception of space and time as seperate entities is incorrect.

These are truly significant facts which have the capacity to change everything.

Sure, like the speed of sound...

There's a burden of responsibility upon your shoulders which few - if any of you - have even acknowledged. That responsibility is to the truth. It doesn't matter whether you dislike me. It doesn't matter whether I won't produce a miracle for you. It doesn't matter whether accepting these facts is a scarey prospect. You have to grow up and face these facts that I have presented to you because they are true and because they are profoundly significant with regards the future of [the perception of being] humanity.

I think I've provided some very substantial counter arguments that you choose to ignore because you don't know how to address them.

However, you are so convinced that you are right, that you keep posting the same thing over and over again anyway.

 

[Atlas]

It's because anytime he's discussing physics, reality, and all that to the benifit of his philosophy, it all has real implications etc. Whenever something is against his philosophy, or someone points out an error, its just an illusion and doesn't matter.

I suppose it's necessary for Lifegazer to believe that what he perceives is an illusion if the reality is that he's got his head in his rectum.

 

[P.S.A.]

Re: Facts to ponder whilst you go to sleep.

FACTS:

*Lies and misunderstandings snipped*

These are truly significant facts which have the capacity to change everything.

And yet... AMAZINGLY!... these "facts" seem to have changed bugger all, even the ones which supposedly agree with our Hero. Strike One! for Lifegazer.

There's a burden of responsibility upon your shoulders which few - if any of you - have even acknowledged. That responsibility is to the truth.

And once more Liegazer lies... Everyone here is telling him that he's the one who refuses to face the truth. We all accept Worms await us. Only one of us has to endlessly change his philosophy to desperately hope to avoid what inevitably awaits. Strike Two! for Lifegazer.

It doesn't matter whether you dislike me. It doesn't matter whether I won't produce a miracle for you. It doesn't matter whether accepting these facts is a scarey prospect.

Ahh, but it DOES matter whether we dislike you. Because you are God apparently. Not just God within the Dream, but the woken up to Itself God. God as he really is. The God (don't laugh just yet, people!) freed from Ego, and Anger, and able (although unwilling) to perform miracles. And the whole point of your religion is that we become God too, and thus become like You. You claim we should all want to become this: That being God/Being Lifegazer is actually extremely desirable.

But the problem with arguing this is that when we actually LOOK at what God apparently is like, it's completely undesirable! Become somebody we don't like, who plainly isn't happy, and has extremely questionable sanity? Abandon love for miracles you can't even show to yourself? Oh God, Noooooo... anything but become that! And whoops, that's Strike Three...! And... YOU... ARE... OUTTA HERE!

But back to the baseline straight away, no doubt, insisting that you've not missed a ball yet. Get help Lifegazer; I mean it. I seriously don't want even YOU to be God/Lifegazer... because this insanity is almost pitiful now.

 

[Z]

Re: Facts to ponder whilst you go to sleep.

FACTS:
(1) We now know that the world we perceive is internal to awareness/ourselves.
(2) We now know that we perceive the SOL to be a constant (numerical value) because the actual source of that light is not the object we perceive, but the Mind which creates the sensation of light - and hence the perception of that object.
(3) We know that there is no such thing as absolute/universal space-time. Einstein told us this. Yet without the existence of universal spacetime, there is no universe external to our own being. I.e., there can be no universe "out there".

These are truly significant facts which have the capacity to change everything. There's a burden of responsibility upon your shoulders which few - if any of you - have even acknowledged. That responsibility is to the truth. It doesn't matter whether you dislike me. It doesn't matter whether I won't produce a miracle for you. It doesn't matter whether accepting these facts is a scarey prospect. You have to grow up and face these facts that I have presented to you because they are true and because they are profoundly significant with regards the future of [the perception of being] humanity.

If our 'burden of responsibility' is to the truth, then let's carefully look at your 'facts':

(1) Nope, assertion based on faulty premises. Not, in fact, a fact.
(2) Again, assertion based on faulty premises. Also not a fact, as a matter of fact.
(3) Not only based on faulty premises, but completely innaccurate and erroneous conclusion, even given the premises.

3 for 3, lg - you are, once again...






WRONG.

 

[Bodhi Dharma Zen]

Re: Facts to ponder whilst you go to sleep.

FACTS:
(1) We now know that the world we perceive is internal to awareness/ourselves.
(2) We now know that we perceive the SOL to be a constant (numerical value) because the actual source of that light is not the object we perceive, but the Mind which creates the sensation of light - and hence the perception of that object.
(3) We know that there is no such thing as absolute/universal space-time. Einstein told us this. Yet without the existence of universal spacetime, there is no universe external to our own being. I.e., there can be no universe "out there".

I acknowledge your urgency to transmit what you think is true. Something you are saying that will not find echo in the forum is that, ultimately, is through subjective experience that we have any sort of knowledge about an "objective world", that much (1) is true.

But with (2) you appear to say that the sun does not exists, that the only thing that is real is the light we see. Here I do not agree. "Something" is causing the consistency of perceptions, it is highly probable (to not say is absolute truth) that this is external and objective.

The same goes for (3) it does not follow from the relativity theory that space/time are only "in us", so to speak.

There is a persuasive argument regarding the reality of an objective world (and other individuals for that matter) it is called the "private language argument" and was made by Ludwig Wittgenstein, please take a look at it and then we can discuss it, if you want.