New perspectives on Relativity

[Upchurch]

Since the multiple thread stuff is sorted out, and we're now talking philosophy. I now reiterate my initial philosophical objection to this argument:

The argument is moot.

Given the assumptions of your philosophy, the laws of physics are arbitrary. Arguments based upon the laws of physics are, therefore, also arbitrary. Thus, under your philosophy, nothing definitive can be said about reality based on the laws of physics.

Might as well argue about how Star Wars or last night's dream proves God's existance.

 

[H'ethetheth]

Uuuuh, all the jedi's are gonna feel that one

 

[P.S.A.]

HOW DARE MODS MOVE MY THREAD INTO A PLACE WHERE SCIENTISTS WILL SEE IT?! I DEMAND THAT IT BE MOVED BACK INTO PHILOSOPHY, WHERE I CAN DENY EVEN THE EXISTANCE OF SCIENTIFIC LAWS, BUT ABUSE SAID LAWS ALL THE SAME IN THE HOPE OF BAMBOOZLING THE PHILOSOPHERS THERE!!

(Whom I'll claim have no skill in philosophy when they disagree with me too, natch)

DO IT NOW OR FACE THE ETERNAL HELL OF LONELINESS!

 

[Darat]

Since the multiple thread stuff is sorted out, and we're now talking philosophy. I now reiterate my initial philosophical objection to this argument:

Just to make clear that the thread being moved here is no indication that the Moderating Team are labelling this thread as “philosophical”.

All that happened was I determined that it was someone’s apparent attempts at describing some personal beliefs that relate to something they describe as "god". I equated these beliefs with "religion" and moved the thread back here.

If the thread was about a scientific theory and why it was wrong/incomplete or the ramifications of that theory I would have left it in the “Science...." section.

 

[P.S.A.]

It will be especially amazing for the JREF establishment to apologise to a theist and grant him his requests. After all, they're employed to serve Randi and his family of mocking parrots.

Oh, and just to add, that's why converting just ONE of those parrots would have clearly been a miracle. You know, those things you say you can perform, and which your "philosophy" (as it current stands) states you MUST perform, otherwise God dies. You haven't converted ANYONE. Your God is thus dead, and you have killed him.

 

[Atlas]

The argument is moot.

Given the assumptions of your philosophy, the laws of physics are arbitrary. Arguments based upon the laws of physics are, therefore, also arbitrary. Thus, under your philosophy, nothing definitive can be said about reality based on the laws of physics.

Might as well argue about how Star Wars or last night's dream proves God's existance.

Aren't the "laws" of philosophy and logic rendered just as moot to anyone who is the God of his own illusion.

Lg, do you think it's moot? Is that why you seldom discuss but mostly proclaim?

One more thing Lg... In your reality you ordain your whims into existence as I understand. Good going on manifesting this thread back into Religion and Philosophy.

edit: Now if you can just ordain a few converts you'll get these plonkers off your back.

 

[Upchurch]

Aren't the "laws" of philosophy and logic rendered just as moot to anyone who is the God of his own illusion.

It is possible that there is some sort of meta-system to which the dreamer-god must adhere, but anything within the dream is arbitrary. That would include any information we have, including our emotions, sense of identity, and concept of existance. In other words, we really can't even be certain that lifegazer's whatever it is that I am actually has any existance whatsoever, let alone the laws of physics.

To say that whatever it is that I am is the dreamer-god would be equivalent to saying that the white rabbit wearing a clown costume and carrying a machine gun that I dreamed about last night* actually is me.

Ultimately, this is why solipism is useless. It can give no real information about reality, including the existance of the solipist. After all, the solipist has no way of knowing whether or not he is not also just a dream.


* No, not really. I'm not that screwed up.

 

[Atlas]

... To say that whatever it is that I am is the dreamer-god would be equivalent to saying that the white rabbit wearing a clown costume and carrying a machine gun that I dreamed about last night* actually is me.

* No, not really. I'm not that screwed up.

Not Really??...

What color was the rabbit?

 

[Upchurch]

Not Really??...

What color was the rabbit?

er... um... it was a tu-tu.

 

[lifegazer]

Let's get back to business.
Last night, I presented absolute proof that only You exist. It seems to have got lost 2 pages back amongst all the nonsense. So, here it is again:-

There is no such thing as absolute time or absolute space. The reason why things such as the "twin paradox" can happen is because the value of the meter and of the second is entirely dependent upon how an individual perceives these values.
They are variants. If they were not, then there would be no twin paradox. No relative variations in how we experience the same universe.

In other words, the existence of time and distance occurs within your awareness. There is no such thing as time or space beyond the awareness of it. And if there is no time or space beyond your awareness, then there can be nothing else that exists beyond you (your awareness). Time and space must necessarily exist to separate two separate entities.

Henceforth, only You exist.

Take special notice of the bold-type. For real entities to exist beyond/apart from you, it is an absolute necessity that there be absolute space and absolute time separating you from those entities. Yet it doesn't exist. Space & time are solely
illusions within your awareness. This is what Einstein has showed us.
Without definite space & time, there can be no separation of real things. This is obvious.
Therefore, only You exist.

I hereby conclude that Einstein's work supports the conclusion of my own philosophy. You need to start taking me seriously, very soon.

 

[H'ethetheth]

I hereby conclude that Einstein's work supports the conclusion of my own philosophy. You need to start taking me seriously, very soon.

Please first provide sound philosophical proof that Einstein existed at all and that he existed like lifegazer does.

 

[Pahansiri]

It will be especially amazing for the JREF establishment to apologise to a theist and grant him his requests. After all, they're employed to serve Randi and his family of mocking parrots.(lifegazer)

I find this to be rather ironic. You being a one who claims you are fully enlightened to the “fact” that only you exist and you are God clearly becomes angered by beings ( who don’t exist) because they will not believe and follow you. You name call and make childish remarks to beings that do not exist arguing beings who do not exist.

A fully enlightened is not controlled by emotions as anger and ego as you clearly seem to be nor would a fully enlightened being have conversations, combative one at that with imaginary people.

You say that your being a enlightened being, enlightened as to the true nature of reality you have special powers and we only exist as to your observation. The simple solution and one that will stop the churning of frustration in your stomach would be to either just make us believe what you do, as we only exist in your mind and by such you control us, or just make the non believers disappear.

If you can do neither thing you have been proven to be wrong.

I think you are a good and fine man but clearly do not know what you believe and more clearly do not believe what you say you do and it is for that reason no one takes you seriously.

If you can demonstrate the powers you say you have people will start to believe you.

Here is the challenge, if I only exist in your mind make me disappear and never post here again will be your proof of power to all these other beings that post here but do not exist.

 

[Donks]

There is no such thing as absolute time or absolute space. The reason why things such as the "twin paradox" can happen is because the value of the meter and of the second is entirely dependent upon how an individual perceives these values.
They are variants. If they were not, then there would be no twin paradox. No relative variations in how we experience the same universe.

How you perceive the universe has nothing to do with the twin paradox. Observers are not necesary to measure the effect. It can be done with clocks. It has been done with clocks.

In other words, the existence of time and distance occurs within your awareness. There is no such thing as time or space beyond the awareness of it. And if there is no time or space beyond your awareness, then there can be nothing else that exists beyond you (your awareness). Time and space must necessarily exist to separate two separate entities.

Does not follow from the above.

Henceforth, only You exist.

Does not follow.

Take special notice of the bold-type. For real entities to exist beyond/apart from you, it is an absolute necessity that there be absolute space and absolute time separating you from those entities. Yet it doesn't exist. Space & time are solely
illusions within your awareness. This is what Einstein has showed us.
Without definite space & time, there can be no separation of real things. This is obvious.
Therefore, only You exist.

I hereby conclude that Einstein's work supports the conclusion of my own philosophy.

You seem to not understand Einstein's work.

You need to start taking me seriously, very soon.

Is there some sort of firm deadline for this?

 

[lifegazer]

Paha, kindly stick to the topic. Namely, that Einstein's work is a proof of my philosophy.

 

[lifegazer]

Please first provide sound philosophical proof that Einstein existed at all and that he existed like lifegazer does.

I don't need to. Einstein is not important. The work is.

 

[Pahansiri]

Paha, kindly stick to the topic. Namely, that Einstein's work is a proof of my philosophy.

My friend you have proven me right. You have no such power, you do not believe what you say and so can not pass a simple test.

You have my compassion.

 

[lifegazer]

How you perceive the universe has nothing to do with the twin paradox. Observers are not necesary to measure the effect. It can be done with clocks. It has been done with clocks.

Clocks exist within awareness, as does everything else affected by the laws/forces we perceive. You're missing the point: that time and space are not absolute values - that they are experiences internal to your own awareness.

However, if you have a proof that REAL clocks exist beyond your awareness of them and if you have a proof that these REAL clocks are affected outside your awareness the same way that they are affected within it, then I'm sure the members would be pleased to hear that proof.

 

[Upchurch]

Paha, kindly stick to the topic. Namely, that Einstein's work is a proof of my philosophy.

The argument is moot. It does not pertain. It has no relevence. You might as well user Raiders Of The Lost Arc as proof of your philosophy. After all, that showed the power of God in the end, didn't it?

In other words, the existence of time and distance occurs within your awareness. There is no such thing as time or space beyond the awareness of it. And if there is no time or space beyond your awareness, then there can be nothing else that exists beyond you (your awareness). Time and space must necessarily exist to separate two separate entities.

You can't even show that whatever it is that you are exists within solipism, why are we supposed to believe that whatever it is that you are has awareness?

 

[H'ethetheth]

I don't need to. Einstein is not important. The work is.

Then tell me how information about the hypothetical experiences of somebody that doesn't necessarily exist concerning something else that doesn't necessarily exist can tell you something useful about something that does exist but cannot be experienced.

And of course you must also first prove that experiences must be caused at all, because Einsteins theory might be the freak result of a million million badgers and a typewriter. Did you check it?
And if you did, could the results of your experiment not be coincidental? And the millionth time?

First things first, lifegazer.

 

[lifegazer]

My friend you have proven me right. You have no such power, you do not believe what you say and so can not pass a simple test.

You have my compassion.

Hey, when I want to talk about miracles, I'll start a thread about them.
When I start a thread about relativity, I intend to talk about relativity. Gettit? Very simple.
Now, address my argument. Therein you will find a proof that You alone do exist.

It is the most profound proof ever presented, so attend to it.