New Disclosures on Benghazi

[The Big Dog]

As long as the primary poster is willing to argue with himself this thread can never die.

The person who admitted that he considers this thread a joke is leaving after almost 500 posts, and announces it with a fanfare?

Huh, sounds legit.

 

[Shalamar]

Yeah, I think the thread deserves to die. I'm out of here.

The vet says the horse is dead.



Adios.

I've also requested that the thread be moved to CT. It's nothing more than a running search for more bad dirt that never seems to exist.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

I'm digging how wrong doing on the administrations part is met with the maximum amount of "skepticism"

What does that even mean?

Do you think your allegation that the Obama administration overtly lied to deflect responsibility for the Benghazi deaths is a claim we should accept without evidence?

What wrongdoing have you been able to prove?

[ETA: And do you think we should accept your claim that 100 people were killed in the Benghazi attack even though your only source disagrees with all other highly-credible sources?]


That reasonable minds disagreed on the preliminary assessment before conclusive facts were known--your latest version of the story-- is not wrongdoing.

 

[elbe]

And I have attempted to avoid the use of the word scandal, because I believe it is a dismissive label slapped on the real issues in an attempt to disrupt serious discussion. In fact it is frequently used as the exact type of fallacy mentioned in my sig.

It would be nice if you understood your opponents positions before trying to attack them

See I've read your posts I've seen what you've been trying to do in this thread. Have you noticed there isn't anyone else left defending your positions? You've been beating a dead horse for pages and pages, reposting the same things over and over again. The evidence just isn't there and constantly asking the same "questions" isn't going to make the facts change to your liking.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

I've also requested that the thread be moved to CT. It's nothing more than a running search for more bad dirt that never seems to exist.

I requested that early on, and then predicted that the thread would generate only CT-type of talk (what exactly are you alleging and what is your evidence, answered by insinuations, arm waving, flat out falsehoods, and just asking questions) and no substantive discussion of policy or politics.

 

[A'isha]

Lets take a closer look at the Rice situation:

Megarif claims evidence shows that some elements of Ansar al-Sharia, an extremist group in eastern Benghazi, were used as tools by foreign citizens with ties to al-Qaida to attack the consulate and threaten Libya's stability.

[...]

And how in the hell did he know that (beyond the fact the he himself was in Benghazi?) Because the United states of America in the person of Asst Sec of State Liz Jones told Libya!

Jones did not tell Magariaf that, actually. All she told him (according to her email) is that the State Department thought the attacks were carried out by a local Benghazi militia with ties to Islamic extremists and that was anti-Gaddhafi, when Libya's ambassador to the US Ali Aujali informed her that the Libyan government thought the attacks were carried out by former members of the Gaddhafi regime.

Jones' email did not say anything at all about how "Ansar al-Sharia, an extremist group in eastern Benghazi, were used as tools by foreign citizens with ties to al-Qaida to attack the consulate and threaten Libya's stability". Wherever Magariaf got that from, it wasn't the State Department.

 

[The Big Dog]

In keeping with the spirit and purpose of the thread, the latest:

Fans of this thread know that we have been anticipating significant developments this week, but in the meantime, it appears that fans of the USA Politics sub-forum can look ahead even further, namely to the 2016 Presidential Election. I thought I'd mention this in passing, but it appears that erstwhile candidate Hillary Clinton is taking a bath over Benghazi; the latest poll numbers here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/31/hillary-clinton-favorability_n_3368208.html

Bizarrely, the Democratic National Committee is attempting make hay (and money?) off the tragedy in Benghazi, in what can charitably be called a "mostly false" email blast.

"Republicans actually doctored emails between administration officials about Benghazi," said the message from Brad Woodhouse, communications director for the Democratic National Committee. "Then, they released them to the press, trying to pass them off as real in order to create their scandal."

Here is the non-partisan lowdown:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...ats-say-republicans-doctored-emails-about-be/

Mostly false? I'd go with just "False."

In keeping with the spirit and purpose of the thread, the latest:

President Barack Obama's top national security adviser Tom Donilon is resigning and will be replaced by Susan Rice, the U.S. ambassador to the U.N. who has been a lightning rod for criticism over faulty explanations for the attack that killed four Americans.

Wow, talk about rewarding incompetence. Susan Rice, the woman who went on National TV, went far beyond the talking points, and directly contradicted the President of Libya, the President of Lbya of course was relying on information that Susan Rice's own Department had told the Libyans on September 12, 2013.

FYI:

These guys don't think the lack of progress on the murders of Benghazi is a "joke."

From yesterday's Stars and Stripes.

http://www.stripes.com/it-s-imperative-we-get-full-story-on-benghazi-1.224270

See I've read your posts I've seen what you've been trying to do in this thread. Have you noticed there isn't anyone else left defending your positions? You've been beating a dead horse for pages and pages, reposting the same things over and over again. The evidence just isn't there and constantly asking the same "questions" isn't going to make the facts change to your liking.

What I've been doing is consistently trying to report developments in the on going investigation into Benghazi, which, as we saw TODAY is directly related to, for example, Obama's decision to promote Susan Rice to NSA.

 

[A'isha]

Oh, and regarding the nonsense claim that Rice's comments affected the FBI investigation:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...0953a28-b831-11e2-b94c-b684dda07add_blog.html

Erin Pelton, a spokeswoman for Rice, provided the following statement in response to the testimony:

“It would have been totally irresponsible for Ambassador Rice to have endorsed on the spot the assessment provided by the Libyan President, knowing that it was inconsistent with our own intelligence community’s assessment that there was not evidence of months-long pre-planning.


On the subject of Libyan government cooperation, it is important to emphasize that the Libyan Government granted visas to the FBI team as soon as their paperwork was received from the United States. The day of Ambassador Rice’s appearance on the Sunday shows (September 16), the Libyan government granted the FBI the necessary visas so that the team could travel to Libya. Their flight clearance was granted the following day, on September 17th, and the FBI arrived in Tripoli on September 18. The team could not travel to Benghazi for some time due to the security situation on the ground.”

Pelton also flagged a comment by Magariaf on Face the Nation, when asked if it was safe for the FBI to travel to Benghazi or whether they should stay away: “Maybe it is better for them to stay for a little while, for a little while.”

Magariaf made his comment about the FBI on that show before Rice spoke and "contradicted" him.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

What I've been doing is consistently trying to report developments in the on going investigation into Benghazi, which, as we saw TODAY is directly related to, for example, Obama's decision to promote Susan Rice to NSA.

What developments led you to the assertion that 100 people were killed?

What developments led you to the assertion that the Obama administration overtly lied to deflect responsibility for the deaths?

I challenge you to substantiate or retract these statements which you made in this thread.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

These 100 dead terrorists--do you think the other terrorists spirited away the bodies, or are these bodies maybe being stored in Area 51?

 

[The Big Dog]

“It would have been totally irresponsible for Ambassador Rice to have endorsed (BS: false dichotomy, it wasn't endorse or contradict) on the spot (BS: THe Libyans were calling terrorism for four days) the assessment provided by the Libyan President, knowing (BS: 1. knowing what? Proof that she knew anything) that it was inconsistent with our own intelligence community’s assessment that there was not evidence of months-long pre-planning. (BS: I thought she said that they were still investigating)

On the subject of Libyan government cooperation, it is important to emphasize that the Libyan Government granted visas to the FBI team as soon as their paperwork was received from the United States. The day of Ambassador Rice’s appearance on the Sunday shows (September 16), the Libyan government granted the FBI the necessary visas so that the team could travel to Libya. Their flight clearance was granted the following day, on September 17th, and the FBI arrived in Tripoli on September 18. The team could not travel to Benghazi for some time due to the security situation on the ground.”

It is also important to emphasize that they didn't get to Benghazi for another two weeks.

Interesting to see the State Department spokesbot CONTRADICTING Greg Hicks of the State Department.

 

[A'isha]

“It would have been totally irresponsible for Ambassador Rice to have endorsed (BS: false dichotomy, it wasn't endorse or contradict)

According to you, it was.

on the spot (BS: THe Libyans were calling terrorism for four days) the assessment provided by the Libyan President, knowing (BS: 1. knowing what? Proof that she knew anything) that it was inconsistent with our own intelligence community’s assessment that there was not evidence of months-long pre-planning.

Knowing exactly what the rest of the sentence there said, and what we've been trying to tell you: what the Libyan President said differed from what the CIA said, and Rice naturally and correctly went with what the CIA said instead of what Magariaf said (especially since Magariaf himself was delivering wrong information).

(BS: I thought she said that they were still investigating)

She said both, which even a cursory reread of the transcript I linked to would inform you.

It is also important to emphasize that they didn't get to Benghazi for another two weeks.

Yes, because (as Magariaf himself said before Rice's comments supposedly angered him) the security situation in Benghazi was too unstable for the FBI to travel from Tripoli to Benghazi..

Interesting to see the State Department spokesbot CONTRADICTING Greg Hicks of the State Department.

So do the facts, it seems.

 

[TellyKNeasuss]

“It would have been totally irresponsible for Ambassador Rice to have endorsed (BS: false dichotomy, it wasn't endorse or contradict) on the spot (BS: THe Libyans were calling terrorism for four days) the assessment provided by the Libyan President, knowing (BS: 1. knowing what? Proof that she knew anything) that it was inconsistent with our own intelligence community’s assessment that there was not evidence of months-long pre-planning. (BS: I thought she said that they were still investigating)

You've been complaining about the absence of any mention of Ansar al Sharia in the final report, but now you're endorsing the statement of the Libyan President who said that the attack was planned by foreigners. Are you dropping the claim that Ansar al Sharia planned and carried out the attack?

 

[The Big Dog]

You've been complaining about the absence of any mention of Ansar al Sharia in the final report, but now you're endorsing the statement of the Libyan President who said that the attack was planned by foreigners. Are you dropping the claim that Ansar al Sharia planned and carried out the attack?

You mean Al Qua'ida affiliated Ansar al-Sharia? No.

 

[A'isha]

You mean Al Qua'ida affiliated Ansar al-Sharia? No.

Which aren't "foreigners", but a local militia composed of Salafists from all over Eastern Libya that is led by two Benghazi natives that had spent years imprisoned by Ghaddafi before the civil war started (and who explicitly denied that their group or its members were involved in the consulate attack) and that has been causing trouble in Benghazi ever since the end of the civil war there.

 

[The Big Dog]

Which aren't "foreigners", but a local militia composed of Salafists from all over Eastern Libya that is led by two Benghazi natives that had spent years imprisoned by Ghaddafi before the civil war started (and who explicitly denied that their group or its members were involved in the consulate attack) and that has been causing trouble in Benghazi ever since the end of the civil war there.

Sounds just like the cast of characters that one would like to hook up with if I was coming into Libya to stir up "trouble."

 

[A'isha]

Sounds just like the cast of characters that one would like to hook up with if I was coming into Libya to stir up "trouble."

Is that supposed to be some kind of substitute for actual evidence support your assertions?

 

[The Big Dog]

Is that supposed to be some kind of substitute for actual evidence support your assertions?

I was answering a question from TellyKNeasuss, friend.

remember when YOU brought up Muhammad Jamal al Kashef (a.k.a. Abu Ahmed) and the Nasr City terrorist cell?

Good times.

 

[A'isha]

I was answering a question from TellyKNeasuss, friend.

Then why did you reply to my post?

remember when YOU brought up Muhammad Jamal al Kashef (a.k.a. Abu Ahmed) and the Nasr City terrorist cell?

How could I remember something that never happened?

 

[The Big Dog]

1. Then why did you reply to my post?



2. How could I remember something that never happened?

1. because I'm cool like that.

2. Huh, that wasn't you? You are quite correct! It was spin0. My bad. Muhammad Jamal al Kashef, Sheikh Adel Shehato and Nasr City terrorist cell. Those are the foreign terrorists that we talked about in this very thread. That is what I get for trying to give you a compliment.