Netanyahu resigns over Gaza

[webfusion]

Absolutely eff-ing right

Posted by Zenith-NadirAs harsh as I may seem I truely believe the losers in war do not "win", or get to make the rules, or get to dictate policy. So if the Palestinians really want a country then they have to chose another method to get it than suicide bombing and terrorism.

This sums it up in one paragraph.
I have been saying exactly the same thing here in my postings (and so has pretty much everyone else in Israel).

Yet, for some reason, completely unfathomable, each and every time the truth is laid where it can be plainly seen, we are told:
"No, you need to atone for the wrongs of Zionism in 1958, 1967, 1973, 1982, 1991 (Gulf War SCUD attacks), 2000 and even as Israel wrenches Jews out of their homes in Gaza in 2005, you need to reverse the clock and bring everything back to the exact Rhodes Armistice Lines of 1949."

That ain't gonna happen, not a chance.

Bibi resigned, too little too late, but he probably will be proven in the near future to be correct in his overall assessment that by leaving Gaza, Israel 'encourages' more terrorism. We shall see.

 

[geni]

Re: Absolutely eff-ing right

Bibi resigned, too little too late, but he probably will be proven in the near future to be correct in his overall assessment that by leaving Gaza, Israel 'encourages' more terrorism. We shall see.

Did tacticaly withdrawing from lebanon encourage more terror?

 

[a_unique_person]

Re: Absolutely eff-ing right

Bibi resigned, too little too late, but he probably will be proven in the near future to be correct in his overall assessment that by leaving Gaza, Israel 'encourages' more terrorism. We shall see.

More than what? Israel had painted itself into a corner, either way. The failure of Oslo, IMHO, was the greatest encouragement of terrorism.

 

[Cleopatra]

I have always agreed that the Palestinians have the right to a state. Never in my life have I believed different.

Ok then.

The problem is that the Arabs/Palestinians rolled the dice to get their state in 1948 and lost that war, they rolled the dice '56 and lost that war too, they rolled the dice in '67 and lost the war, they rolled the dice in '73 and lost the war, they rolled the dice in '82 and lost the war, they rolled the dice in '88 and lost the first intifada and they rolled the dice in 2000 and lost the second intifada. Sorry but I ain't gonna sugar-coat the truth....the Palestinians lost, they had their chance, they made their moves and THEY LOST.... repeatedly. Period, end of story.

This " period end of story" doesn't sound very promising in a negotiation. I disagree with the way you group the events together. They definetely made the huge mistake on 1948 and they lost the wars until '73 but they haven't lost the Intifandas. They haven't achieved the goal but they have achieved something...biblical. They have initiated a war and it's the opponent that lost it by becoming more introvert,more violent. less democratic for its people, more confused, more hurt. Not only haven't they lost the Intifanda but they turned Jewish people back where they were in Europe: behind walls and in ghettos.

Had the Palestinians chosen a different method of negotiation with Israel other than wars, international terrorism, murdering Olympic athletes and suicide bombing Israeli women and children perhaps their fate would be different today. But it isn't.... and I will not obscure that REALITY one bit. Their plight was created by their own hand.

I am not interested in the Palestinians right now although I am not a unilateralist. I am interested in Israel and many times interests especially between neighbours are not necessarily conflicting . OUR interest pass through THEIRS.

The situation that you describe demonstrates exactly that they are unable to grasp that in our days you don't win countries with the bombs but with articles in NYT. Israel's future passes through Palestine and Peace though and this is something that Sharonistas want us to forget.

As harsh as I may seem I truely believe the losers in war do not "win", or get to make the rules, or get to dictate policy. So if the Palestinians really want a country then they have to chose another method to get it than suicide bombing and terrorism.

Yes I agree by all means. Where we seem to disagree though is in the observation that Israel has a secure and democratic future only through a free Palestine.

Sometimes you make me believe that demon and you are in agreement because both of you are asking for Justice. Justice is an artificial notion and it's irrelevant in this case.

Don't ask people to attribute Justice because other people don't really care, they only care to push their interests and their country's agenda. Don't expect to start talking about the past and have people listening to you, this will never happen. Don't expect people to justify the actions of today because of the Palestinian mistakes of the past. Don't expect people to feel any sympathy when you demostrate your scars, especially western europeans that enjoy every misery that falls on jewish heads and they will never get over their antisemitic hatred regardless the crocodilean tears they shed.

 

[a_unique_person]

Re: Absolutely eff-ing right

This sums it up in one paragraph.
I have been saying exactly the same thing here in my postings (and so has pretty much everyone else in Israel).

Yet, for some reason, completely unfathomable, each and every time the truth is laid where it can be plainly seen, we are told:
"No, you need to atone for the wrongs of Zionism in 1958, 1967, 1973, 1982, 1991 (Gulf War SCUD attacks), 2000 and even as Israel wrenches Jews out of their homes in Gaza in 2005, you need to reverse the clock and bring everything back to the exact Rhodes Armistice Lines of 1949."

That ain't gonna happen, not a chance.

Bibi resigned, too little too late, but he probably will be proven in the near future to be correct in his overall assessment that by leaving Gaza, Israel 'encourages' more terrorism. We shall see.

I think you are making blanket accusations of what many Palestinians want. I have been chided many times for not specifying exactly what group of Jews, Israelis or Zionists I am referring to.

The reference you make would refer to Hamas, still a minority of Palestinians. Many would be prepared to live in Israel, if they could get their old properties back, many just want the tanks gone, IMHO. They want to know that land that is theirs won't be stolen, etc. A blanket put down like that is comforting, but not realistic. It also ignores the reality that Sharon is now facing, after years of encouraging settlements, (five fingers?), he now acknowledges, that was a huge mistake. But he is damned if he leaves, damned if he doesn't, so he is making the least worst decision. Israel, too, is a loser. And it is not innocent.

 

[Mycroft]

Re: Re: Absolutely eff-ing right

Originally posted by a_unique_person
I think you are making blanket accusations of what many Palestinians want. I have been chided many times for not specifying exactly what group of Jews, Israelis or Zionists I am referring to...

I don't understand where you get this. Nothing in Webfusion's post talks about Palestinians as a group.

ZN does, sort of, but his comments are inclusive of the larger Arab nations which have waged war against Israel and are appropriate in context.

Originally posted by a_unique_person
The reference you make would refer to Hamas...

No, Hamas wasn't formed until 1987. Obviouosly if he is referenceing conflicts from 1958, 1969, 1973 and 1982 he cannot be referring to Hamas. Certainly the SCUD attack from 1991 did not come from Hamas, but from Saddam Hussein.

When he says, "We are told..." it's clear to me he's not limiting his comments to Palestinian-Arabs or even just Arabs. He's referring to everyone who demands Israel must return to the 1949 Armistice lines.

Clearly Webfusion is not guilty of the generalizations attributed to him.

Originally posted by a_unique_person
A blanket put down like that is comforting, but not realistic. It also ignores the reality that Sharon is now facing, after years of encouraging settlements...

Well, your blanket put downs are not realistic, and ignore decades of Palestinian-Arabic leadership choosing violence over negotiations. That's the real issue ZN and Webfusion are addressing.

Originally posted by a_unique_person
(five fingers?)...

I don't understand what this reference means. Could you explain it to me?