Belz...
Fiend God
Yeah. Science doesn't have all the answers when it contradicts them, or is plain useless; and it's so awesome (but doesn't work like they think it does) when they try to use it to their advantage (but fail).
Merged Near Death Experience Study
- Thread starter dogjones
- Start date
MaartenVergu
Illuminator
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2010
- Messages
- 3,146
Interesting. I still didn't see any convincing argument why people can have simular 'hallucinations'. I still have seen no statistics about the chances people have, to have almost exactly the same 'dreams' with the same kind of feelings (loving) and the same kind of stories. Still no convincing arguments here.
Last edited:
Donn
Philosopher
I recommend opening your eyes.
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
Because, as has been pointed out to you many many times, they have similar brains and similar upbringings. How on earth can you find something that obvious unconvincing? Are you also unconvinced that water is wet?
Donn
Philosopher
He's just trying to win by having the last word.
Slowvehicle
Membership Drive , Co-Ordinator,, Russell's Antin
Donn
Philosopher
I'll give that to you. Oh, darn..
asydhouse
Master Poster
ahem
Slowvehicle
Membership Drive , Co-Ordinator,, Russell's Antin
ahem
Snerk!
Olowkow
Philosopher
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2007
- Messages
- 8,230
Donn
Philosopher
It's all so hum-drum, isn't it?
Interesting Results from NDE Study
NDE research gets stranger and stranger:
"One case was validated and timed using auditory stimuli during cardiac arrest. Dr Parnia concluded: "This is significant, since it has often been assumed that experiences in relation to death are likely hallucinations or illusions, occurring either before the heart stops or after the heart has been successfully restarted, but not an experience corresponding with 'real' events when the heart isn't beating. In this case, consciousness and awareness appeared to occur during a three-minute period when there was no heartbeat. This is paradoxical, since the brain typically ceases functioning within 20-30 seconds of the heart stopping and doesn't resume again until the heart has been restarted. Furthermore, the detailed recollections of visual awareness in this case were consistent with verified events."
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/10/141007092108.htm
"This supports other recent studies that have indicated consciousness may be present despite clinically undetectable consciousness."
http://www.resuscitationjournal.com/article/S0300-9572(14)00739-4/abstract
From the PDF file:
"a 57 year old man described the perception of observing events from
the top corner of the room and continued to experience a sensation
of looking down from above. He accurately described people,
sounds, and activities from his resuscitation (Table 2 provides
quotes from this interview). His medical records corroborated his
accounts and specifically supported his descriptions and the use of
an automated external defibrillator (AED)."
"Thus, within a model that assumes a causative relationship
between cortical activity and consciousness the occurrence
of mental processes and the ability to accurately describe events
during CA as occurred in our verified case of VA when cerebral
function is ordinarily absent or at best severely impaired is
perplexing. This is particularly the case as reductions in CBF
typically lead to delirium followed by coma, rather than an accurate
and lucid mental state."
Too bad no one could see the little pictures they placed on the shelves in the ER. Their bad luck was that 78% of the cardiac arrests they studied took place in rooms without pictures on the shelves. The one really good case they got was, of course, in a room with no picture on the shelf.
NDE research gets stranger and stranger:
"One case was validated and timed using auditory stimuli during cardiac arrest. Dr Parnia concluded: "This is significant, since it has often been assumed that experiences in relation to death are likely hallucinations or illusions, occurring either before the heart stops or after the heart has been successfully restarted, but not an experience corresponding with 'real' events when the heart isn't beating. In this case, consciousness and awareness appeared to occur during a three-minute period when there was no heartbeat. This is paradoxical, since the brain typically ceases functioning within 20-30 seconds of the heart stopping and doesn't resume again until the heart has been restarted. Furthermore, the detailed recollections of visual awareness in this case were consistent with verified events."
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/10/141007092108.htm
"This supports other recent studies that have indicated consciousness may be present despite clinically undetectable consciousness."
http://www.resuscitationjournal.com/article/S0300-9572(14)00739-4/abstract
From the PDF file:
"a 57 year old man described the perception of observing events from
the top corner of the room and continued to experience a sensation
of looking down from above. He accurately described people,
sounds, and activities from his resuscitation (Table 2 provides
quotes from this interview). His medical records corroborated his
accounts and specifically supported his descriptions and the use of
an automated external defibrillator (AED)."
"Thus, within a model that assumes a causative relationship
between cortical activity and consciousness the occurrence
of mental processes and the ability to accurately describe events
during CA as occurred in our verified case of VA when cerebral
function is ordinarily absent or at best severely impaired is
perplexing. This is particularly the case as reductions in CBF
typically lead to delirium followed by coma, rather than an accurate
and lucid mental state."
Too bad no one could see the little pictures they placed on the shelves in the ER. Their bad luck was that 78% of the cardiac arrests they studied took place in rooms without pictures on the shelves. The one really good case they got was, of course, in a room with no picture on the shelf.
Dancing David
Penultimate Amazing
Hmm, was the patient brain dead, or in cardiac arrest? It takes up to three minutes for teh brain to suffer from anoxia.
Looks like they studied patients in Cardiac Arrest.
The study is only a couple pages long (the PDF file).
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
Original thread: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124141
Thread discussing results: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10263775
Thread discussing results: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10263775
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
Studies of supposed paranormal phenomena tend to be discussed in the GS&P subforum. That's where you'll find the threads about Ganzfeld etc.
Daylightstar
Philosopher
Full text of the above:
http://www.resuscitationjournal.com/article/S0300-9572(14)00739-4/fulltext
Interesting.
Looking at the post resuscitation interview questions from table 1:
Seems to me like nothing but leading questions.
Attachments
Last edited:
Daylightstar
Philosopher
It wouldn't be the first time that, let's call them, non rigorous studies appear in proper journals.
Certain characters with irrational inclinations just love to get their stuff in proper journals, they think it adds validation to their line of thought.
Scientists have studied nde's ...Dr. Saboam researched nde's for 5 years and wrote a book about the results...