Merged Near Death Experience Study

[xterra]

I just want to point out that hallucination and telepathy are two different things

Indeed they are different.

The former is well-documented and demonstrable in controlled studies.

The latter may be documented, but is not demonstrable in controlled studies.

 

[Kathie Bondar]

There are obvious flaws in that study:

So they experienced a lot of different things with no real common denominator. Just like you would expect from hallucinations. It would have been more convincing if they all met their deceased relatives and had a chat with them.

There is also the point that we have been making over and over again: these NDEs do not have to be formed while the patients are "clinically dead" (whatever that means). It is much more likely that they are formed in the minutes before waking up. Why do the doctors inn this study assume that the experiences are formed while dead? That is exactly what would be impossible in physics, so that should have been their last hypothesis, not their first.

From my study into telepathy a couple of things emerged: a dying person is mentally very busy indeed, his signing-off, so to speak from the physical and his approaching arrival to the astral. He has people on both sides. One example comes to mind: the death of Italian dictator Mussolini. He has been beaten to death, then his body hanged. Once "over the other side" his death struggle over, his physical pain over, he stood by his hanging body thinking "you can't kill a man twice".
Similar having passed over from the physical to the astral experience have been reported by a couple of others I have studied, reporting similar experiences. You stay near your physical body for a while, then you are gone, its an "old new you" different landscape, different circumstances, your new life has just began.
There is an alternative to this belief, for which we still have not found the physics, is that we came from nothing and return to nothing. No laws of physics broken, except for the few years you spent feeding.

 

[Donn]

From my study into telepathy .. Once "over the other side" his death struggle over, his physical pain over, he stood by his hanging body thinking "you can't kill a man twice".

That's funny because I heard him thinking, "Dio maledetto , che fanno male."

For reals.

Similar having passed over from the physical to the astral experience have been reported by a couple of others I have studied, reporting similar experiences.

Do they have a youtube channel for all this reporting? I'll bet being dead saves on the Internet costs though.

There is an alternative to this belief, for which we still have not found the physics, is that we came from nothing and return to nothing. No laws of physics broken, except for the few years you spent feeding.

Droll. You turn it around and make it bleak and so your hopes must be the real thing. Don't we feel silly now.

 

[Belz...]

I just want to point out that hallucination and telepathy are two different things

I'll say. One exists, and the other doesn't. That's the biggest difference I can think of between two things.

 

[Belz...]

From my study into telepathy a couple of things emerged: a dying person is mentally very busy indeed, his signing-off, so to speak from the physical and his approaching arrival to the astral.

Begging the question: could you demonstrate the existence of the astral, after defining what the astral is, of course ?

 

[Akhenaten]

From my study into telepathy a couple of things emerged: a dying person is mentally very busy indeed, his signing-off, so to speak from the physical and his approaching arrival to the astral.

Where might we read this study and more importantly, its peer reviews?

He has people on both sides.

How can you possibly know this?

One example comes to mind: the death of Italian dictator Mussolini. He has been beaten to death, then his body hanged. Once "over the other side" his death struggle over, his physical pain over, he stood by his hanging body thinking "you can't kill a man twice".

Pics or it didn't happen.

Similar having passed over from the physical to the astral experience have been reported by a couple of others I have studied, reporting similar experiences.

I can't wait to read these reports.

You stay near your physical body for a while, then you are gone, its an "old new you" different landscape, different circumstances, your new life has just began.

So you say.

There is an alternative to this belief, for which we still have not found the physics, is that we came from nothing and return to nothing.

The reason you can't find the physics to explain this belief is that it's a fantasy.

No laws of physics broken, except for the few years you spent feeding.

lolwut?

 

[sackett]

Point of order: Benny the Moose was shot, not beaten to death.

 

[MaartenVergu]

I also can understand the resistance against NDE's.
Such an experience is laughing with some scientific assumptions. The stories of many people of their NDE's are putting the scientific worldview upsite down. So, it's hard to accept for people who are trained with a materialistic view of the world. They don't want to listen to these stories or they don't want to take them serious.
Maybe we don't know a lot of things. Maybe some people are too arrogant to think they can explain everything with they reduced materialistic view, while there are things we actually can't explain.

 

[Belz...]

I also can understand the resistance against NDE's.

Maartenn, would you please stop lying, here ? We all agree that NDEs are real. The question is what is their cause; and the evidence points to a mundane one.

The resistance is yours: to the idea that there are no such things as souls, afterlives and the supernatural.

Such an experience is laughing with science. It's putting the scientific worldview upsite down. So, it's hard to accept for people who are trained with a materialistic view of the world.

I'll say. We've been looking for evidence of the supernatural for thousands of years and all we've ever come up with is evidence of the opposite. Reality proves that it simply doesn't exist despite our enduring hopes.

Maybe we don't know a lot of things. Maybe some people are too arrogant to think they can explain everything with they reduced materialistic view, while there are things we actually can't explain.

Or maybe you just want to believe and you're trying to hide it with a pretense of open-mindedness where there is none.

 

[Akhenaten]

I also can understand the resistance against NDE's.

I don't think you do.

Nobody is denying that being close to death can result in all kinds of experiences which can reasonably be referred to as 'Near Death Experiences'.

What's being objected to is the way YOU are trying to define/describe these events.

Such an experience is laughing with science.

That doesn't make any sense.

It's putting the scientific worldview upsite down.

Tisagreeing with you is toing that? I toubt it.

So, it's hard to accept for people who are trained that the world can not be like this.

Huh?

And maybe it is. Maybe we don't know a lot of things. Maybe some people are too arrogant to think they can explain everything, while there are things we actually can't explain.

Again, you aren't posting in a recognisable language.

 

[MaartenVergu]

Here you find some intresting interviews with people who had an NDE.
So, don't be prejudiced and listen to them. And afterwards, form your own opinion.
Is it by chance that there are so much similarties? I'm a rational person and know something about statistics. Many people are telling the same story.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=PRESENT!+nde.

 

[Belz...]

Here you find some intresting interviews with people who had an NDE.

Fringe reset, then.

So, don't be prejudiced and listen to them. And afterwards, form your own opinion.

Get this through your skull: it isn't prejudice. The evidence IS IN. That the experiences are similar, though nowhere near as similar as you pretend, doesn't mean that it's supernatural. In fact it's so far from evidence that the supernatural is responsible that one has to wonder why you think it is -- that is what I would say if I didn't already know why. Posting anecdotal discussion about one's experiences does not change the laws of physics, the data or the research on the topic.

You want to believe in heaven ? Fine, do so. Don't expect your belief to amount to a hill of beans, here.

 

[Akhenaten]

<snip>

Is it by chance that there are so much similarties?

No, it's exactly what you would expect to see when someone creates a YouTube channel intended to create the illusion that there's an uncanny similarity between all NDEs.

 

[Donn]

So, it's hard to accept for people who are trained with a materialistic view of the world. They don't want to listen to these stories or they don't want to take them serious.

Again you equivocate. You chide the "materialists" for not being gullible and throwing all their reason out the window. You want these stories to be about life after death. Even after recently admitting that wishes don't make it so, you are still trapped in the fantasy.

For the millionth time: Dead is dead, no coming back. Alive is not dead. Coming near to death is not being dead.

Do you not see this simple thing?

If you could interview a rotten corpse and have it speak with a tongue of maggots to relate its tunnel of light dream of love, then you'd have something to work with.

If you could share interviews with ghosts, obtained without deceit, then you'd be off to a good start.

If you interview a person who is not dead and they tell you about what it was like to be dead, then they are just wrong.

As Madness once asked:
Simple enough clear?
Comprehende savvy understand me
Do you hear?

Maybe we don't know a lot of things. Maybe some people are too arrogant to think they can explain everything with they reduced materialistic view, while there are things we actually can't explain.

There are, of course, as you well know we have all admitted. Why the attitude? What are trying to hide from you?

The arrogance is yours - with your implications of our conspiracies to deny life after death. Or something.

Get over it.

 

[MaartenVergu]

Have you seen the interviews? I don't think so.
So, don't be prejudiced and see the evidence (the interviews)

Here is an explanation of the simularities and paterns in NDE's.:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcPRg7USiTk

But first listen to te evidence.
(the experiencers).

 

[Belz...]

Have you seen the interviews? I don't think so.
So, don't be prejudiced and see the evidence (the interviews)

Pause for a second: what exactly do you think those interviews mean ? I'm serious about this. You say "see the interviews", but to what end ? We've already explained that anecdotes don't constitute convincing evidence. In addition, you don't know what other interviews the people who made this video might have ignored. Videos aren't unbiased data collection: they have ideas to sell you.

 

[MaartenVergu]

Have you really seen them all, these interviews?
Have you seen all parts of the explanation of the patterns of NDE's?
I don't think so.

Do you think all these people lie?

 

[Slowvehicle]

Have you seen the interviews? I don't think so.
So, don't be prejudiced and see the evidence (the interviews)

Here is an explanation of the simularities and paterns in NDE's.:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcPRg7USiTk

But first listen to te evidence.
(the experiencers).

Are transcripts of the interviews available?

 

[Slowvehicle]

Have you really seen them all, these interviews?
Have you seen all parts of the explanation of the patterns of NDE's?
I don't think so.

Do you think all these people lie?

Have you seen all the interviews that were left out?

Are there transcripts?

 

[Akhenaten]

Here is an explanation of the simularities and paterns in NDE's.:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcPRg7USiTk

That's probably the most painful presentation I've ever forced myself to watch.

Apart from that, it's just more cherry-picked anecdotes, statements of the bleeding obvious and outright bat-crap insanity.

But first listen to te evidence.
(the experiencers).

Of what do you think they're evidence?