Native American myths/traditions support Bigfoot? A critical look.

[manofthesea]

I hope Kidakaze didn't get locked in the library. He stated that he would be studying totems and then he'd get back here. That's assuming that books, real books (particularly those in the Reference Section) are still held in high esteem. Most of the good information is still not readily available on the internet.

 

[manofthesea]

Also, can you give a link to the document itself and not just references to BF websites?

There's no link. It's in a real book. At a real library. A whole new (antiquated) way of researching material. Besides, this information explicitly states not for reproduction...

 

[kitakaze]

Multitudes of mouths presumably denotes that there are/were many of them.

No, it doesn't. This would be an example of the interpreting of elements of myth to fit one's notions of bigfoot.

When it was said Mr. Baxbax 'can transform into various man-eating birds and was said to have mouths all over his body' there is absolutely no need to presume anything, whether it was an expression of bigfoot's population or capability of flight.

It is also important to keep in mind that Mr. Baxbax is not a commonly asserted correlary for bigfoot. MOTS is in fact the only one asserting the idea which doesn't make me want to spend much further time on it. It's clearly not bigfoot and you don't have oodles and oodles of footers making vague half references to Mr. Baxbax as you do with 'The Wild Woman of the Woods' etc.

 

[kitakaze]

There's no link. It's in a real book. At a real library. A whole new (antiquated) way of researching material. Besides, this information explicitly states not for reproduction...

Here's Bigfoot Encounters entry on it:

THE DIARY OF ELKANAH WALKER

If we are to believe the Diary of Elkanah Walker, pioneer American missionary in Washington State to the Spokane Indians, he wrote:
"Bear with me if I trouble you with a little of their superstitions. They believe in a race of giants, which inhabit a certain mountain off to the west of us. This mountain is covered with perpetual snow. They (the creatures) inhabit the snow peaks. They hunt and do all their work at night. They are men stealers.
They come to the people's lodges at night when the people are asleep and take them and put them under their skins and to their place of abode without even waking. Their track is a foot and a half long. They steal salmon from Indian nets and eat then raw as the bears do. If the people are awake, they always know when they are coming very near by their strong smell that is most intolerable. It is not uncommon for them to come in the night and give three whistles and then the stones will begin to hit their houses." (Drury 1976, pp. 122-123)

Reverend Walker's established mission was approximately located twenty-five miles northwest of present day Spokane, WA. His diary entry of the snow peak to the west could be one of several peaks in the Cascade Range such as Mt. Baker, Mt. Rainier, Mt Adams or Mount St. Helens or possibly he could have meant Mt. Hood on the Oregon side of the Columbia River. But Sasquatch researchers, myself among them, generally believe the missionary was referring to Mt. St. Helens which has always carried legends of Sasquatches, ape-like men and of course the 1924 story of Fred Beck in Ape Canyon.
Missionary Walker also penned pre-civil war references to this beautiful Mt. St. Helens as a place where the white man and the Indians never frequented "and who assert it is inhabited by a race of beings of a different species, who are cannibals and whom they hold in great dread."

In his private writings, he declared the Indians called these different beings "Seatcoes or Selahticks." Words, which he thought at the time of his writings possibly referred to renegade or outcast Indians banished from tribal villages and not the elusive timber giant. Of this referential point we can't be sure, but his diaries were the first to make mention of it.

Unlike Mr. Baxbax, the Walker diary is worthy of further examination as it is commonly referenced by footers as seen in it's entry at Bigfoot Encounters.

Before I even spend further time on it the first thing that jumps to mind when you have an account of men stealer cannibals is that slavery is well known to have been practiced among various indigenous cultures of the Americas. Having an account that horrifies the perpetrators is nothing shocking.

 

[kitakaze]

My guess is that Spektator or someone with better access will be more helpful but I'll start with some preliminary links regarding Elkanah Walker:

The Walker Library:

http://www.wsulibs.wsu.edu/holland/masc/walkerdescription.html

Elkanah and Mary Richardson Walker Papers, 1830-1938:

http://www.wsulibs.wsu.edu/holland/masc/finders/cg57.htm

Guide to the Clifford M. Drury Papers 1932-1983:

http://nwda-db.wsulibs.wsu.edu/findaid/ark:/80444/xv58842

Just a thought. If we really have 8ft giant bipedal primates kicking around all over the continent, you'd think one wouldn't have to dig through such vague, obscure possible references to support the idea.

 

[Creekfreak]

You dont have to dig Kit all you have to do is take my word for it they are real .

 

[kitakaze]

You dont have to dig Kit all you have to do is take my word for it they are real .

Prayer to the Flying Spaghetti Monster:

"Dear FSM, thank you for giving me the power not to take freak's word for it. Whenever I feel tempted to take freak's word for it about the bigfoots with screwdrivers and the beans and what not... well, I'll just sprinkle a little of that sacred parmesan on myself and squeeze tight the holy meatballs in my pockets and kiss the sky. Zesty praise be to you, my Flying Spaghetti Monster. Ramen!"

 

[manofthesea]

The next thing I was thinking to look into was the claimed representation of bigfoot in totem poles.

It'd be pretty interesting to get your (boas's) take on totems.

 

[Tricky]

Obviously, Paul Bunyon was a Bigfoot. His appearance in literature confirms the fact that giant humanoids have walked the earth, especially in the Northwest.

 

[kitakaze]

It'd be pretty interesting to get your (boas's) take on totems.

Don't worry, MOTS. I haven't forgotten, just been kept away from the computer by work more than usual lately.

I'm particularily interested in the totems displayed in my hometown of Victoria, BC at The Royal British Cloumbia Museum (PGF fans should recognize that place) in Thunderbird Park and particularily the work of Kwakwaka'wakw Chief Mungo Martin. He was a noted expert in the Northwest Coast style of artwork, a singer, and a songwriter and I'm curious if he had thoughts, if any, about bigfoot. I'll look into it as soon as I can.

In the meantime, some questions:

1) Do you think there are any clear representations of bigfoot in totem poles?

2) We are told by Kathy Strain and others that there were literally hundreds of names for bigfoot by tribes all over the continent. Why do we not see any native bigfoot artifacts? We have native bear artifacts, why not bigfoot?

ETA: You'd do well to read up on Franz Boas for the purpose of this thread. A very interesting and important figure, often called the "Father of American Anthropology."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Boas

How'd he miss all the frickin' bigfoots?

 

[manofthesea]

Don't worry, MOTS. I haven't forgotten, just been kept away from the computer by work more than usual lately.

I'm particularily interested in the totems displayed in my hometown of Victoria, BC at The Royal British Cloumbia Museum (PGF fans should recognize that place) in Thunderbird Park and particularily the work of Kwakwaka'wakw Chief Mungo Martin. He was a noted expert in the Northwest Coast style of artwork, a singer, and a songwriter and I'm curious if he had thoughts, if any, about bigfoot. I'll look into it as soon as I can.

In the meantime, some questions:

1) Do you think there are any clear representations of bigfoot in totem poles?

2) We are told by Kathy Strain and others that there were literally hundreds of names for bigfoot by tribes all over the continent. Why do we not see any native bigfoot artifacts? We have native bear artifacts, why not bigfoot?

1) Did I ever state this?

2) PM Kathy Strain, she is a member here.

3) Either finish your work, or check into totems, don't try baiting me.

 

[kitakaze]

1) Did I ever state this?

Uh, no... If you had then I wouldn't need to ask, would I? You stated an interest in the subject so I asked if you think there are clear representations of bigfoot in totem poles. It's not a difficult question.

2) PM Kathy Strain, she is a member here.

I'm quite sure she's aware of this thread and would have participated by now if she was so inclined. It would seem she may not be.

3) Either finish your work, or check into totems, don't try baiting me.

Simple questions, MOTS. If you don't want to discuss the issue then don't pursue it. And take a walk or something, your attitude sucks.

 

[manofthesea]

How about we just skip the totems?

When I first suggested boqs, that was because the only reference in my personal library pointed to this being. "Giant, cannibal"

But then I decided to go to the State Library and there I found references to Hekanah Walker and his time spent with the Spokane Indians. Before we running off an adhom tangent, the Spokane Indians are on the east side of the Cascades. Same mountains. More definitive descriptions.

I've discounted the Kwakiutl legends myself now. So...don't waste your time.
Unless someone else wants to put forward the Kwakiutl as a reference.

Remember, I had a friend who grew up on the Colville and he stated to me that bigfoot is real. So I'll now stick with the Salishan (Spokane) myths.

 

[manofthesea]

Let's try this. I have an outstanding collection of literature. One of the books is The Last Mohiccan by James Fenimore Cooper. I quoted him in my signature at BFF. Check it out.

This was after I noticed that one of your lists pointed out that manitou was an Indian name for bigfoot. And take special note of the setting in which this quote is found.

Note, I have the unabridged versions of these novels, so if you need further help, you just let me know.

 

[manofthesea]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Boas[/url]

How'd he miss all the frickin' bigfoots?

You'd also do well to notice that he wasn't offered tenure, so he moved back east and started his 'anthropology', well away from his sources.

 

[manofthesea]

Bump

Let's try this. I have an outstanding collection of literature. One of the books is The Last Mohiccan by James Fenimore Cooper. I quoted him in my signature at BFF. Check it out.

This was after I noticed that one of your lists pointed out that manitou was an Indian name for bigfoot. And take special note of the setting in which this quote is found.

Note, I have the unabridged versions of these novels, so if you need further help, you just let me know.

Can I at least get a "blah blah, har har"?

 

[RayG]

This was after I noticed that one of your lists pointed out that manitou was an Indian name for bigfoot.

It was? You mean like Kushtaka was an Indian name for bigfoot?

RayG

 

[manofthesea]

It was? You mean like Kushtaka was an Indian name for bigfoot?

RayG

If you can't focus on the subject at hand, stick to the PGF. But it does qualify as blah blah, har har.

You've been into bigfoot "for a little more than three decades", you must be aware of James Fenimore Cooper's little 'poem' about manitou. What do you think of it?

I just started this past summer. I'll try and make it easy for you. What do you think about Hekanah Walker?

 

[Wauthan]

I apologize for intruding in the debate but after reading this thread I got really curious. I greatly enjoy reading about the old local folklore here in Sweden and felt that atleast some mythical beings overlapped with those presented by Kitakaze. There are a lot of stories about encounters with trolls, ogres, giants and hairy "wild men" living in the forests.

Are these tales hints of bigfoots in Skandinavia? Or does the folklore of the native american tribes have certain qualities that set them apart from the ones in Europe? Sorry again for intruding, but I felt over my head and thought it best to ask experts in this matter.

 

[manofthesea]

I apologize for intruding in the debate but after reading this thread I got really curious. I greatly enjoy reading about the old local folklore here in Sweden and felt that atleast some mythical beings overlapped with those presented by Kitakaze. There are a lot of stories about encounters with trolls, ogres, giants and hairy "wild men" living in the forests.

Are these tales hints of bigfoots in Skandinavia? Or does the folklore of the native american tribes have certain qualities that set them apart from the ones in Europe? Sorry again for intruding, but I felt over my head and thought it best to ask experts in this matter.

Are there any bigfoot sightings in Skandinavia? Or at least a crappy 40 year old film?

I played hockey as a youth and we played the Swedish National Team. They were pretty good. Finland was better, and bigger. But I liked the way they chewed tobacco with it in their upper lip, dude.