National Emergency

Stacyhs said:
How is everyone doing during this time of National Emergency? I'm fine. Still hunkered down in the basement with plenty of food, water and bullets stocked. No brown horde is going to rape, murder or spread smallpox in my house!
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Ask these people.

Nope, no problem at all.

What exactly do you people want?

- let anyone who wishes walk in and live here unimpeded
- drop them off back at the border
- detain them until we sort them out

What do you want to do with the border? Please, some caring liberal respond because all I hear is bad bad bad, wrong wrong wrong, racist, brown people bla bla!

Quit whining and being snarky and offer some constructive advice for once. Anyone! Tell us, what would be the perfect setup for our border? Or like, ya know, you can just do the usual "look I said something cute woohoo! Fist bump!"

I know I'm wasting my time here, There will be no straight answer.
 
mgidm86 said:
Ask these people.

Nope, no problem at all.

What exactly do you people want?

- let anyone who wishes walk in and live here unimpeded
- drop them off back at the border
- detain them until we sort them out

What do you want to do with the border? Please, some caring liberal respond because all I hear is bad bad bad, wrong wrong wrong, racist, brown people bla bla!

Quit whining and being snarky and offer some constructive advice for once. Anyone! Tell us, what would be the perfect setup for our border? Or like, ya know, you can just do the usual "look I said something cute woohoo! Fist bump!"

I know I'm wasting my time here, There will be no straight answer.
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But the specific issue here is not really our immigration policy: it's the idiocy of the wall.

By the existing laws, we should catch the ones who really enter illegally and deport them, but we should allow the ones who have legitimate asylum claims and clean criminal records. Trump wants to do away with asylum, and liberals will fight him tooth-and-nail over that. The biggest problem with the existing law is that temporary workers don't qualify for asylum but too few qualify for legal entry, so they're either treated as criminals or largely ignored as long as they take whatever work, wages, and working conditions they can find. So, one "constructive criticism" would be that we need to make it easier to get temporary work permits and follow through with regulations and enforcement to make sure they are treated fairly.
 
mgidm86 said:
I know I'm wasting my time here, There will be no straight answer.
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I rather think your lack of any answer, straight or not, to questions about your own claims is wasting everyone's time. Not just yours. So, in the spirit of no longer wasting everyone's time, how about you state whether there is a crisis, what exactly the crisis is, and what makes it a crisis. Then, after you answer questions, perhaps someone else will answer some of yours. How's that sound?
 
mgidm86 said:
Tell us, what would be the perfect setup for our border?
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There is no perfect setup, there is only trying to react to a difficult, multifaceted situation.


What exactly do you people want?

- let anyone who wishes walk in and live here unimpeded
- drop them off back at the border
- detain them until we sort them out
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The way to improve the situation probably isn't prone to be boiled down to a snappy one sentence soundbite. But I can give you some points that would be a part of it.

The real long term border strategy starts with tackling the motivations for illegal immigration. It targets predatory employers who hire people illegally. But there also needs to be an acknowledgement that many of these agricultural jobs aren't being stolen from Americans. There should be a strong guest worker program so that seasonal workers can come, work in non-exploitative conditions, pay taxes and return to central America.

We need to acknowledge our role in the instability that's driving migration. Mexican narcos are funded by American drug users. We've toppled governments in central America, cregion creating power vacuums which bring us to today's situation. But even if we weren't responsible it would still be prudent policy to build up our southern neighbors. Nobody flees a country where they have stability and opportunity.

Asylum seekers should be processed quickly and efficiently. Right now they're being lied to by border agents and having guns pointed at them by soldiers torn away from their families on Thanksgiving at great taxpayer expense. We need more judges, more caseworkers, and a system designed down to the details to be efficient rather than punitive which is the case with our current system. I've heard some very positive things about ankle bracelet programs which don't rely on child separation or holding applicants in overcrowded facilities. I'm not committing to that specific alternative. The question of how we keep asylum seekers specifically from slipping through the cracks without being processed is a complex one all by itself, and we're not going to solve it in a forum post. But as we decrease the demand for illegal border crossing, better solutions become plausible. To the extent that we need to detain people, and there will always be some level, I think a baseline expectation is that kids don't get raped or lost. We manage to hang on to kids in a number of other institutions with a minimal amount of that sort of thing, so I trust we can do it when the kids speak spanish.

Yes, probably some expanded barriers would be a part of any prudent solution. Not "a wall" that involves massive emminent domain seizures and threats to wildlife. Butsome strategic expansion and maintenance of current barriers. The way it is discussed with Mexico, as aesthetic as it might seem, is important. **** you Mexico, we need a huge wall and you'll pay for it does more damage to our relationship with our southern neighbor than a wall can do good. We need to be cooperating with Mexico on the very real threats of drugs and violence around the border. We also need our strong southern trading partner, but that's a whole other story. The messaging needs to be "Hey, lets work together to counter our shared problems with thoughtful barriers" You may dismiss that as shallow optics, but it's called diplomacy.

We will never fully eliminate illegal immigration, just like we will never fully eliminate almost any real large issue that politics deals with. We haven't fully eliminated murder or rape. But neither do we need to imagine a single magic pill which perfectly solves our murder "emergency".

[/QUOTE]
 
mgidm86 said:
Ask these people.

Nope, no problem at all.

What exactly do you people want?

- let anyone who wishes walk in and live here unimpeded
- drop them off back at the border
- detain them until we sort them out

What do you want to do with the border? Please, some caring liberal respond because all I hear is bad bad bad, wrong wrong wrong, racist, brown people bla bla!

Quit whining and being snarky and offer some constructive advice for once. Anyone! Tell us, what would be the perfect setup for our border? Or like, ya know, you can just do the usual "look I said something cute woohoo! Fist bump!"

I know I'm wasting my time here, There will be no straight answer.
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Straw-manning and poisoning the well much?
 
There is no hearing on the schedule for H.J. Res. 46 in the Senate Armed Services Committee.

There is no mention of H.J. Res. 46 in the Senate Calendar of Business.

ETA: If the folks on The Hill aren't even going to grandstand, let alone pass laws and stuff, they should just shut the lights off in their D.C. offices and go do some casework in their districts.
 
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Norman Alexander said:
So... About this "emergency".


.........how's it going? Any news? Seems awful quiet for such a "big" thing.
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Thanks much because I was thinking about the same thing.

So far during this "National Emergency" ...

There has not been any rationing of gasoline, food, and other such consumer products to support the National Emergency.
There have not been any requests that the public buy "War Bonds" or other such things to support the National Emergency.
There have not been any requests that the public plant "Victory Gardens" or other such things to support the National Emergency.
There have not been any "Blood Drives" in order to support the National Emergency.

And so on.

In short, this has to be most quiet and sedate National Emergency of all time. Either that, or there is no National Emergency to begin with.
 
Crossbow said:
Thanks much because I was thinking about the same thing.

So far during this "National Emergency" ...

There has not been any rationing of gasoline, food, and other such consumer products to support the National Emergency.
There have not been any requests that the public buy "War Bonds" or other such things to support the National Emergency.
There have not been any requests that the public plant "Victory Gardens" or other such things to support the National Emergency.
There have not been any "Blood Drives" in order to support the National Emergency.

And so on.

In short, this has to be most quiet and sedate National Emergency of all time. Either that, or there is no National Emergency to begin with.
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I believe many National Emergencies have involved the imposition of sanctions on foreign nations or people. They don't involve any of the things you mention either.

You can see a list of declarations here. Obama issued twelve, none of which were emergencies of the scale you mention.

None of this should be taken to mean I support Trump's move (I don't) nor that I think Obama overstepped the intention of the law (no opinion, since I really don't recall the context of these emergencies for one thing). I just don't think your argument works all that well.
 
phiwum said:
I believe many National Emergencies have involved the imposition of sanctions on foreign nations or people. They don't involve any of the things you mention either.

You can see a list of declarations here. Obama issued twelve, none of which were emergencies of the scale you mention.

None of this should be taken to mean I support Trump's move (I don't) nor that I think Obama overstepped the intention of the law (no opinion, since I really don't recall the context of these emergencies for one thing). I just don't think your argument works all that well.
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I wonder when was the last national emergency based on events (allegedly) occurring on US soil?
 
Trump Tweets

Republican Senators are overthinking tomorrow’s vote on National Emergency. It is very simply Border Security/No Crime - Should not be thought of any other way. We have a MAJOR NATIONAL EMERGENCY at our Border and the People of our Country know it very well!

Democrats will have a unanimous vote on a 20% issue in opposing Republican Senators tomorrow. The Dems are for Open Borders and Crime!
 
No one will accuse Trump of overthinking anything. Thinking is something he is incapable of.
 
Upchurch said:
I wonder when was the last national emergency based on events (allegedly) occurring on US soil?
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First Obama declaration for flu outbreak. There's a not so obvious link in the text you quoted. Some later ones may qualify too depending on how you define "US Soil" in the cyberspace era.
 
Trump Tweets

A big National Emergency vote today by The United States Senate on Border Security & the Wall (which is already under major construction). I am prepared to veto, if necessary. The Southern Border is a National Security and Humanitarian Nightmare, but it can be easily fixed!
 
He keeps saying that the wall is already under major construction. If that's the case, then why does he need to declare an emergency to get the funding?
 
Armitage72 said:
He keeps saying that the wall is already under major construction. If that's the case, then why does he need to declare an emergency to get the funding?
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1) the wall is under major construction
2) Lots and lots and lots of people are getting arrested at the border

Clearly, there is an emergency....

BTW, notice that nowadays, he is decrying a "humanitarian crisis" at the border. Yeah, there is....one he started.

The way to solve it is to do things like, stop separating kids from their parents.
 
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