NASA's foremost mission? Improve relations with Muslims.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Except the facts weren't distorted. ....

Yes they were, in the typical manufactured outrage style that is the trademark of Faux News and the Republic* Party.

What evidence do you have that NASA has suddenly shifted from their scientific mission to one of international PR? You have a statement by the director in an interview where clearly reaching out to Muslims would have been a logical position for the director to take in that interview. You have a director who showed his personal enthusiasm for international cooperation.

And you have the right wing trying to make hay of that.

 

[Chris L]

You are assuming the right wingers need any legitimate reasons for criticism.

In this case, I'm not that interested in what right wingers need or don't need. The audience I'm concerned with are the people who watch Leno and Letterman. The statement Bolden made is really too easy to use as ridicule. You can rationalize it all you want, but to the average person, it just sounds stupid. The last thing any administration wants is to have a policy goal become a punch line for some late night comedian's monologue. It was a message fail, that's why Gibbs went into damage control mode.

 

[GrouchoMarxist]

Unfortunately, PR skills are not one of the Democratic Party's strong points

This might help. I'd spring for a copy and send it to them, but I spent all my spare coin on NASCAR paraphernalia.

 

[a_unique_person]

No it's not. It's myopic and naive. If you want to pursue "engagement", that's fine. But NASA doesn't have the tools, the experience, the cultural understanding, the personnel, or the ability to do that in any meaningful way. That's not their job. It's like asking Phys. Ed. teachers to try to teach calculus: it doesn't matter how noble you think the goal is, it's a mismatch in mission and capability.

It's like asking a Phys Ed teacher to try to encourage teamwork and co-operation.

 

[Chris L]

It's like asking a Phys Ed teacher to try to encourage teamwork and co-operation.

Is that the main (as in most important) job the Phys Ed teacher has? Or is he there to actually teach physical education?

As a side benefit of space flight, outreach programs are fine. The problem is, Bolden (in an infantile attempt to kiss up to his audience) made it sound like it was THE job that the president gave him. It was silly and stupid. Bolden should have known better.

 

[theprestige]

You have a statement by the director in an interview where clearly reaching out to Muslims would have been a logical position for the director to take in that interview.

No, I don't have any such statement at all. What I do have is a statement that you believe presents a logical position.

I disagree. I don't think it was a logical position to take, in that or any other interview. That, in a nutshell, is the entire objection to that statement. I think it's not a logical position for the director of NASA to take under any circumstances. I also think that your saying it is makes you just as wrong as Bolden was.

 

[Ferguson]

It's like asking a Phys Ed teacher to try to encourage teamwork and co-operation.

Actually, it's like asking the director of NASA to try and do the job of a middle school Phys Ed teacher.

 

[GrouchoMarxist]

Actually, it's like asking the director of NASA to try and do the job of a middle school Phys Ed teacher.

It's like asking Buzz Aldrin to do the job of Mike Tyson.

 

[Mycroft]

You are assuming the right wingers need any legitimate reasons for criticism. They don't. They distort legit issues to create outrage. And they are good at it and this is one of those cases.

Left wingers are pretty good at that too.

 

[Frank Newgent]

i can see the headlines on al jazeera now

"Great Satan fakes life on other planets to draw Muslims away from Allah"

Have you ever caught Al Jazeera on TV? Have seen Al Jazeera-English a few times in Jakarta.

Kicks the crap outa Fox News.

http://english.aljazeera.net/

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Left wingers are pretty good at that too.

I addressed that in this post in another thread.

There are fringies and dishonest people on both sides of the political isle that make all sorts of ludicrous charges against the other side. One big difference is the mainstream left doesn't embrace and encourage the dishonest and fringe positions of the wackos on the left. The mainstream right wing, OTOH, at this point in time, is embracing, encouraging and even initiating much of the dishonest spin.

 

[Chris L]

It's an axiom in politics that if you say something stupid, your opponents will use that stupidity against you. For instance, if you are at the birthday party of a 100 yr old segregationist, and say that America would have been a better place if the segregationist had won his bid to be president, you can expect the people who don't like you to use it to get you pushed out the door. What Bolden said was stupid, NASA is an agency designed and dedicated to space flight and exploration, it is not a part of the State Department. It can, through it's activities, also promote such things, but that is not its main purpose.

Oh and in case you didn't know it, when one adult tells another adult "one of my main focuses is to make you feel good about yourself and help your self-esteem", the other adult tends to think of the first as a lying, condescending jerk. So even on the localized PR level, it fails. Arab adults are not children, and should not be treated as such.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

It's an axiom in politics that if you say something stupid, your opponents will use that stupidity against you. For instance, if you are at the birthday party of a 100 yr old segregationist, and say that America would have been a better place if the segregationist had won his bid to be president, you can expect the people who don't like you to use it to get you pushed out the door. What Bolden said was stupid, NASA is an agency designed and dedicated to space flight and exploration, it is not a part of the State Department. It can, through it's activities, also promote such things, but that is not its main purpose.

Oh and in case you didn't know it, when one adult tells another adult "one of my main focuses is to make you feel good about yourself and help your self-esteem", the other adult tends to think of the first as a lying, condescending jerk. So even on the localized PR level, it fails. Arab adults are not children, and should not be treated as such.

I agree with the first part of your post. But I don't find Obama's visions of NASA nor Bolden's comments in this case as stupid as is being portrayed.

But it's no surprise it raises the hackles of the Neocons whose view of the world is narrow minded and dogmatic when it comes to US foreign relations. Obama's only mistake here is a common one made by people who've newly become leaders, that of underestimating how much resistance one gets to new ideas and drastic change.

The underlying premise that NASA can play a role in uniting the world through scientific endeavors is a sound view. For evidence, look at where we are now with Russia. Consider McCarthy rolling over in his grave with the joint US/Russian space programs.

You don't go to war with people you know and interact with. You go to war with people you see as "them", people whose culture seems foreign to you. The more we promote peaceful cooperative interaction with the Muslim world, the more we weaken their military dictatorships and strengthen their populations.

This is hardly comparable to saying we'd be better off had a racist segregationist been elected President during the civil rights movement in the US.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

You missed the point. Wouldn't finding other life on other worlds get in direct conflict with Islam's dogmas? The same goes for Christianity, but NASA's administrator didn't talk about Christianity.

We could give the Martians towels to wear on their head (heads?) and that would make the Muslims happy.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

OBL, KSM, Ramzi Yousef... all highly educated men, all terrorists.

The failed Times Square bomber, also highly educated. As were most of the 9/11 hijackers.

Not a lot of terrorists fit your meme of ignorant caveman.

Apparently Skeptigirl thinks it's ok to stereotype, as long as the target is just ignorant Muslims.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

You are assuming the right wingers need any legitimate reasons for criticism. They don't. They distort legit issues to create outrage. And they are good at it and this is one of those cases.

This 'issue' is a distortion of the facts made into a manufactured thing to be outraged about. And the right winger masses suck it up like the babies at a teet.

So the nut left has never done the same thing? Seriously? No Democ* has ever done such a thing?


(*Tired of continuing to hear the "Republic Party" repeatedly I've decided to adopt the name, Democ Party, in response.)

 

[Ziggurat]

You don't go to war with people you know and interact with.

The history of Europe proves this absurd statement wrong.

The more we promote peaceful cooperative interaction with the Muslim world, the more we weaken their military dictatorships and strengthen their populations.

Suppose we do manage to embark on some significant cooperative space venture with Muslim countries. Who, exactly, do you think it will be that we'll be cooperating with? Random peasants? Of course not. We'll be cooperating with whomever those military dictatorships hand-pick to cooperate with us. It's no coincidence that the Saudi astronaut referenced earlier in the thread was a prince. Suppose further that this outreach program actually produces some visible results that the countries in question can be proud of. Who gets the credit? Democratic activists protesting for change? Of course not: those self-same regimes which hand-picked the scientists to work with us will (rightly) get the credit. Will that weaken them? You'd be a fool to think so.

Now, maybe it's still a good idea to do this, though you clearly don't have any coherent concept of why. But again: this is not NASA's primary mission. Bolden shouldn't have said it was. And no amount of subsequent backtracking on his part can change the fact that what he said was bloody stupid, all it can do is reduce the significance of him having said something stupid. But you still can't figure that out.

 

[Chris L]

SG, (again) The outreach idea itself is not the problem (for me anyway). It was the fact that Bolden made it sound like it was the president's and his main focus combined with the condescending "help your self esteem" bit. Now I am sure that is not how Bolden meant it exactly, but that is how it came out. If you really believe that the intended audience is a bunch of child like people who need OUR help in making them feel better about themselves, you do not know much about human nature. They are adults and are not fooled by patronizing foolishness. Heck, why didn't Bolden just pat the reporter on the head while he was saying it?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

SG, (again) The outreach idea itself is not the problem (for me anyway). It was the fact that Bolden made it sound like it was the president's and his main focus combined with the condescending "help your self esteem" bit. Now I am sure that is not how Bolden meant it exactly, but that is how it came out. If you really believe that the intended audience is a bunch of child like people who need OUR help in making them feel better about themselves, you do not know much about human nature. They are adults and are not fooled by patronizing foolishness. Heck, why didn't Bolden just pat the reporter on the head while he was saying it?

I did not get the same impression from the interview watching it directly as Faux News and the right wing are portraying the comments.

Have you read any comments in the Muslim press suggesting the comments sounded condescending?

 

[applecorped]

Do you get a nickel every time you say faux news?