My "ESP" experiences

[CFLarsen]

As pointed out, as he reported, he thought of the exact answer without seeing the program.

As pointed out, I already admitted my error. Do try to keep up, will'ya? Do try to read what is posted here.

Doesn't that assume he was guessing????

Sure, but from what? A paranormal phenomenon?

One can always say that when investigating anything wierd.

Pay attention 12 year olds! Next time you have a 'ESP' experience about anything, make sure to call in scientists (before it occurs!) and set up a controlled, randomized, double-blind, replicable experiment.

And what is your problem with that? How do you think mankind has progressed, by relying on anecdotes or by relying on controlled, randomized, double-blind, replicable experiments?

I do want to hear your answer to that one.

 

[zultr]

1. About 17 years ago... I KNEW that the answer was "THE LAND OF OZ."

2. I immediately KNEW who was calling...what he was going to say...and what he wanted.

From what you've said, you're about 30. Two big instances, and one happened 17 years ago. How many times in the intervening years have you guessed and been completely wrong? About 20 years ago, I was watching wheel with my sister - for famous person, she said simultaneously with the appearance of the blank letters "Princess Grace of Monaco." Exact. She had seen a Grace Kelly movie three days before. She's never done it again. I don't think she has ESP either.

Your work experience is biased because of what you're doing, what projects you're working on, and daily patterns you may not pay attention to. Again, I've had moments when similar things have happened, but I chalk it up to chance - for every few times I'm right, I'm wrong literally thousands of times. Once, I was sure a prospective employer was calling to offer me a job, but instead it was my mechanic telling me I needed a new tranny. Kind of ESP in reverse.

In short, it's kind of the trap the cold readers want you to fall into - remember the hits, ignore the misses. You're wrong the vast majority of the time, so you don't even pay attention to it because it's so common. When you're right, by comparison, it seems miraculous. I'd say it was chance unless it happens frequently - otherwise, if you had the ability, it would turn up more than every 17 years (for that example anyway) and you'd be able to replicate it and test it (and win a lot of money on game shows).

 

[T'ai Chi]

As pointed out, I already admitted my error. Do try to keep up, will'ya? Do try to read what is posted here.

I obviously am keeping up and reading. Why do you think I replied with "As pointed out," ?

Sure, but from what? A paranormal phenomenon?

Well, it a priori assumes guessing was involved, so there is no need to do inquiry after one already assumes the answer.

And what is your problem with that? How do you think mankind has progressed, by relying on anecdotes or by relying on controlled, randomized, double-blind, replicable experiments?
I do want to hear your answer to that one.

I have no problem with science or its methods. I do have a problem with some of its followers often saying such and such should have been done when conditions obviously precluded it, and since they weren't done, non-coincidence conclusions are most probably not correct.

Are you saying he, when he was 12 years old and didn't even know that his 'ESP' experience would occur, should have called up some scientists and magicians to set up a double-blind, controlled, randomized, replicable experiment? Are you suggesting he should have proceeded in this way, or not?

 

[Aoidoi]

For whatever it's worth, I can recall very distinctly several times where I was absolutely convinced something horrible had happened to my parents. I'd get details like "My Mom had a car accident" or "My Dad had a heart attack." I would be absolutely sure they were dead and panic for a few moments... until reason reasserted itself and I realized that they were most likely fine. Given that they're both still living it's fairly clear that these instances where I was so certain something was wrong were decidely incorrect.

I have several times answered the phone sure I knew who was calling... and been wrong. Once or twice to decidedly humorous results.

So do I have anti-paranormal powers?

Actually, a couple times I've watched wheel of fortune and guessed the puzzle before any letters were chosen, but I don't think I've ever tried guessing without seeing the word pattern. Well, at least not guessing correctly, which would really be the only thing that you'd remember. It does help when you pick up on the theme for that episode, since I've noticed the puzzles are often related (at least for the on-location and special shows).

 

[Stereolab]

Re: Re: My "ESP" experiences

From what you've said, you're about 30. Two big instances, and one happened 17 years ago. How many times in the intervening years have you guessed and been completely wrong?

I've had roughly 15 "ESP" experiences in my life (along with TONS of coincidences.)

Of these, there are some that could be explainable by unbelievable coincidence, or by subconscious memories, or whatever. I am open to such explanations.

But the thing about these 15 times in question is that they weren't "guesses." I KNEW.

I have guessed at lots of things. Been wrong plenty of times. But I've never, ever been wrong when I KNEW like that. And I really did KNOW right then, I'm not simply remembering it that way after the fact.

 

[Stereolab]

Actually, a couple times I've watched wheel of fortune and guessed the puzzle before any letters were chosen

I've done that plenty of times...I'm very good with puzzles and words. I could do that twenty times in a row and not attribute that to any kind of unexplainable power.

 

[athon]

As people have suggested here, Stereolab, while you may indeed have experienced a moment of ESP, there are explanations that do not require such complicated, revolutionary theories.

In addition to what has already been pointed out, I would like to add one thing that many people find unthinkable - our memories are rarely accurate portraits of what actually happened. The reason for this is slowly being understood, but essentially our brain is more of a plastic, evolving pool of information than a solid 'warehouse' of sounds and pictures.

The reason for this is simple - back when we were fleeing cave bears and beating women with sticks, it was of advantage to have an evolving stock of memories and associations. As pattern making creatures, we can form cognitive patterns between events, emotions, and recently (in evolutionary terms) with novel situations that we have not directly experienced (i.e. imagination - a truly human adaptation). This is wonderful for finding food, making simple tools and learning to stay away from Mr. Bear's cave. It's not all that good when divining the true nature of our universe.

So, why do our memories change? If you were to associate two events based on a single experience (cave + roar = terror), it may be incorrect. Cause and effect are not always apparent, and just because two events occur close together in time it does not make them related. Multiple experiences would provide a more accurate association, however each experience, due to the nature of our brains, alters how all related experiences are perceived. Experiments with mice have supported this.

In other words, what happened on each occasion probably wasn't quite how you remember it. No amount of 'but I know I what I was thinking' will change that - I've been pretty stubborn about things like that in the past, and have ended up eating a lot of humble pie afterwards. Simply put, I knew what had happened - unfortunately, it didn't happen like that in reality.

It can be a humble experience realising that we are still basic animals on a foundation level - knowing this is the greatest tool we have in science, and separates true scientific thinking from psuedoscience nonsense.

Athon

 

[Aoidoi]

I've done that plenty of times...I'm very good with puzzles and words. I could do that twenty times in a row and not attribute that to any kind of unexplainable power.

I take it you watch the show a lot? I really only watch it when my grandmother is around, so I don't practice all that much (she lives in another state). If you're a regular viewer it is certainly possible that the episode was a rerun and you had seen it before (they do reruns on the network showing, right? Or do they have a new one every day? Sorry, reached the limit of my knowledge of the realm of Pat Sajak a while back ) In any case, if you're a regular viewer I suppose random chance isn't too far fetched on that one.

On the other hand, wouldn't it be boring if you never experienced anything that you couldn't explain? What a simplistic world we would live in where all events have straightforward answers.

 

[Mercutio]

Re: Re: Re: My "ESP" experiences

But the thing about these 15 times in question is that they weren't "guesses." I KNEW.

I have guessed at lots of things. Been wrong plenty of times. But I've never, ever been wrong when I KNEW like that. And I really did KNOW right then, I'm not simply remembering it that way after the fact.

This is the part that I find odd. I mean, if you were right significantly more often when you KNEW, that's one thing--but "never ever" being wrong under those circumstances? That is a bit odd.

Certainly I (and, I would wager, everybody) gets hunches where we KNOW we are right about something. Sometimes we are, sometimes we aren't. And yes, memory researchers will verify that we will remember proportionally more hits than misses. And so, SteveGrenard to the contrary, occam's razor suggests that your perfect record when you KNOW is likely to be your human, imperfect memory at work.

On the other hand...if you do occasionally KNOW the answer (I'm not being facetious here, I am following your capitalization model, as I think it is helpful), then we could, in theory, test your abilities in a more controlled fashion. It would essentially be a standard ESP test (Zener cards, anyone?), but we only look at the ones you KNOW you got right. Yup, it will take longer, but it ought to be worth it. Either you find out something about your memory, or you find a way to earn a million bucks...

 

[T'ai Chi]

Stereolab,
(I like that group)

Have you written any of these experiences down? If so, how long after the experience did you write it down?

 

[epepke]

15 to 17 experiences? That's not too many. But then again, you're young. I'm 42 and have had scores more than that.

Anyway, about the gazzilionth time I had an experience and there was no evidence for it other than my memory, I gave up. There were many times that, according to my memory, I could have written something down to show it, but somehow I didn't, even when I had a feeling that I was making some sort of a psychic prediction. Now I have a Palm Zire, which automatically dates notepad notes, and if I have one of these experiences, I'll be sure to jot it down, and if I can show it after the fact, then I'll lend some credence to it, and maybe go for a shot at a million bucks, which I could really use right now, as I've made way less than the poverty level last year.

But until then, isn't it curious that I should remember having thought about writing it down but never actually doing it?

 

[T'ai Chi]

Re: Re: Re: Re: My "ESP" experiences

then we could, in theory, test your abilities in a more controlled fashion. It would essentially be a standard ESP test (Zener cards, anyone?), but we only look at the ones you KNOW you got right. Yup, it will take longer, but it ought to be worth it. Either you find out something about your memory, or you find a way to earn a million bucks...

The intention is good, but if Stereolab cannot control and doesn't know when he gets his 'ESP' experiences, then it seems that setting up a controlled test becomes more than problematic.

 

[Stereolab]

While I didn't write anything down beforehand, I can say that there were witnesses to what happened, or at least my explanation of what happened (my parents were in the room during the Wheel of Fortune thing, and I talked to a friend about the "phone" experience that same day). So, I can easily verify with them that this is not something I'm remembering incorrectly years later.

I actually never did watch Wheel of Fortune all that much, and haven't done so in years. But--as far as I know--the prime-time ones were never "re-run" during prime time. If anyone knows differently, please let me know.

 

[epepke]

While I didn't write anything down beforehand, I can say that there were witnesses to what happened, or at least my explanation of what happened (my parents were in the room during the Wheel of Fortune thing, and I talked to a friend about the "phone" experience that same day). So, I can easily verify with them that this is not something I'm remembering incorrectly years later.

I actually never did watch Wheel of Fortune all that much, and haven't done so in years. But--as far as I know--the prime-time ones were never "re-run" during prime time. If anyone knows differently, please let me know.

As they used to say, whatever, dude.

I'd like to encourage you not to be skeptical but rather to try you damnedest to produce some tangible evidence of such experienced in the future. After all, if you've had 17, there are probably more to come. If you get some, you could win a million bucks! If not, you might have to look elsewhere for explanations.

A forum like this one can't give you pat answers, and I'm sure you can always come up with some counter-explanation to any of the possible explanations that are given. It's pointless.

 

[CFLarsen]

The intention is good, but if Stereolab cannot control and doesn't know when he gets his 'ESP' experiences, then it seems that setting up a controlled test becomes more than problematic.

Now, where have we heard that excuse before?

And yes, it is an excuse, because psychics only seems to have trouble, when they are being tested, or there's a skeptic around.

While I didn't write anything down beforehand, I can say that there were witnesses to what happened, or at least my explanation of what happened (my parents were in the room during the Wheel of Fortune thing, and I talked to a friend about the "phone" experience that same day). So, I can easily verify with them that this is not something I'm remembering incorrectly years later.

Sorry, no, that's not verification. That's your own version of what happened.

I actually never did watch Wheel of Fortune all that much, and haven't done so in years. But--as far as I know--the prime-time ones were never "re-run" during prime time. If anyone knows differently, please let me know.

What was the date?

 

[Hand Bent Spoon]

What I'll never be able to convince any of you (or, for that matter, you'll never be able to convince me otherwise), is the 100% confidence that I had in the outcome of those events before they happened.

What you seem to be saying here is that reality is determined by your level of confidence. If you're 100% confident in something, then it must be the case. Surely you can see the fault in this reasoning? And you must admit, that this 100% confidence you describe could possibly be ex post facto?

But perhaps you can't, because also as you say here, we will never be able to convince you that these events were mundane. Yes, we will never be able to convince you because for whatever reason, you need these events to be paranormal. The only real question left is, why it is you need these things to be paranormal?

 

[Mercutio]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: My "ESP" experiences

The intention is good, but if Stereolab cannot control and doesn't know when he gets his 'ESP' experiences, then it seems that setting up a controlled test becomes more than problematic.

...which was precisely the reason for this particular methodology (i.e., only paying attention to the ones he KNEW).

In fact, it could take considerably less time. The very first instance of a trial where he KNEW but turned out to be a false alarm would address his original claim (that he has never been wrong when he KNEW). Of course, as folk here have taken great pains to point out, since the incidents in question are in the past, we cannot ever adequately address them.

 

[Ipecac]

Nearly everyone has these types of experiences. They're perfectly natural and a function of our human brain. The fact that Stereolab does seem to need to believe in this, as Hand Bent Spoon has pointed out, says more about Stereolab than the objective nature of reality.

Same old, same old.

 

[DangerousBeliefs]

I knew you were going to post this!

Seriously, 15-17 experiences with "ESP" aren't that great....

Try shuffling a deck of cards and guessing what a randomly drawn card will be.

Re-shuffle after each guess.

If you get more than 1 out of 20 right, you've got a gift powerful enough to win $1 million.

 

[T'ai Chi]

Now, where have we heard that excuse before?

And yes, it is an excuse, because psychics only seems to have trouble, when they are being tested, or there's a skeptic around.

How does a skeptic propose to test someone's 'ESP' experiences when that person doesn't even know when those experiences will occur, and can't control them when they do occur?