My argument against materialism

[punshhh]

OK, if this cosmology is so wide reaching and well ordered, and has principles and rules, maybe you could refer us to those principles and rules, and documentation of its order. A couple of links to the clearest expositions will suffice.

Meanwhile, give us some examples of the evidence for it. It can't just be based on imaginative fantasy, surely? There must be some basis for it, so let's hear the best evidence.

I am not prepaired to reveal my primary source material, I can already see pixy's termites getting to work if I did.

I suggest you read some writings on Hinduism as a well established widely discussed philosophy, which is very similar to my position.

There is little scientific research going on into these things that I am aware of and no proof. There is only the literature of people who have practiced spirituality. There is a vast amount of material on these subjects.

 

[dlorde]

I understand these ideas from another source to physics, I don't fully understand the mathematical modeling involved in physics when considering more than usually discussed dimensions.

From my perspective no maths is involved.

Then you can't expect to present acceptable speculation or hypotheses about the big bang, the physical cosmology of the universe, the structure of spacetime, dimensions, or any other related physical concepts we've been talking about.

From where we stand, it looks like you're just making stuff up and wasting everyone's (and your own) time. You claim the backing a well-ordered cosmology with rules and principles, so present it and the evidence for it so we can examine it.

Also, if you take some time to read up about current cosmology ideas, popular physics, and so forth, you will be in a better position to ask sensible questions and make slightly more informed speculation about these things.

 

[dlorde]

I am not prepaired to reveal my primary source material

So wide-reaching, well-ordered, and secret. Why am I not surprised?

You know the rules here - assertion without evidence or sources is simply rejected.

There is little scientific research going on into these things that I am aware of and no proof.

Nobody here expects proof, only evidence.

There is only the literature of people who have practiced spirituality. There is a vast amount of material on these subjects.

Just so long as this literature can be distinguished from fiction - that's all that matters.

 

[PixyMisa]

No its the terminology I was taught, a vehicle requires a driver, thats why it is more appropriate.

Well, that's simply wrong then. The brain is a machine too. There's no driver.

I am refering to personal experience of chakras in your own body, not using the mind.

There is no personal experience of chakras, because there's no chakras.

 

[PixyMisa]

Unfortunately I can provide no mathematical proofs, as I have pointed out, I am new to the scientific/materialist way of thinking. I have lived my whole life studying these subjects from the 'other side of the fence', from spiritual and mystical teachings. I do keep abreast of scientific developments and am genuinely interested in it, while also having little or no argument with it.

Welcome to reality.

Infinity doesn't need to worm its way into matter, my point is that each atom or sub atomic particle is in a sense "still" directly "connected" to the point of origin.

No.

It has an aspect outside of time and space and is in a certain sense still present in the singularity.

No.

Hence could potentially be influenced by some "impulse" originating in the singularity at any time or point in space.

No.

I refer you back to my post where I refered to God imminent.

Why?

 

[dlorde]

I'm a how much is left in the bottle kind of a guy

So how much is left? Shall I open another?

 

[PixyMisa]

Try hitting your thumb with a hammer, I assure you your mind will not be involved, only your brain.

Tried it. My mind was involved.

The brain can operate independently of the mind.

Sure. But not the other way around.

Not again

I am genuinely surprised that you folks regard the brain and the mind as one thing.

We don't. The brain is a couple of pounds of greyish gloop located inside your head. The mind is what the gloop does.

I had been under the impression that the mind "inhabited" the parts of the brain concerned with the higher or more computational activity and is not present in the more base activities such as pain response.

If you know that you hit your thumb, that means that your mind is involved.

These ideas are taken from a wide reaching and well ordered cosmology of existence.

It's called mysticism, and it is nonsense from beginning to end.

I can no more alter the principles or rules of this cosmology than a physicist can bend the laws of physics to suit his/her whim.

Of course you can. Physics is real. Mysticism is not. You can change it any way you like.

I understand these ideas from another source to physics, I don't fully understand the mathematical modeling involved in physics when considering more than usually discussed dimensions.

From my perspective no maths is involved.

And there's your problem. If you want to talk about reality, you need maths. If you just want to make up stories, fine. But you need to understand that they're just stories. They're not real.

All that Hindu and Buddhist mysticism? It's all made up. None of it is real.

I am not prepaired to reveal my primary source material, I can already see pixy's termites getting to work if I did.

Yeah, there's a reason I used that name.

There is little scientific research going on into these things that I am aware of and no proof. There is only the literature of people who have practiced spirituality. There is a vast amount of material on these subjects.

And every bit of it is nonsense.

 

[dafydd]

I am not prepaired to reveal my primary source material, I can already see pixy's termites getting to work if I did.

I will have a look and see if I can find something similar.

There is little scientific research going on into these things that I am aware of and no proof. There is only the literature of people who have practiced spirituality. There is a vast amount of material onstories about these subjects.

ftfy
No surprises there.

 

[punshhh]

Then you can't expect to present acceptable speculation or hypotheses about the big bang, the physical cosmology of the universe, the structure of spacetime, dimensions, or any other related physical concepts we've been talking about.

From where we stand, it looks like you're just making stuff up and wasting everyone's (and your own) time. You claim the backing a well-ordered cosmology with rules and principles, so present it and the evidence for it so we can examine it.

Also, if you take some time to read up about current cosmology ideas, popular physics, and so forth, you will be in a better position to ask sensible questions and make slightly more informed speculation about these things.

I do read science all the time, also I have no argument with any of its findings, I see no conflict.

It surprises me how many of the posters here take such a disparaging view of ideas beyond scientific understanding. Are you in some kind of conflict with someone?

I stated earlier on in the thread that I will use an established cosmology as a template from which to present my argument. This is hinduism I suggest you take some time to read up on it, its quite interesting notwithstanding that it considers similar aspects of reality as physics, from a different perspective. I would if I were in your shoes.

 

[dafydd]

I do read science all the time, also I have no argument with any of its findings, I see no conflict.

It surprises me how many of the posters here take such a disparaging view of ideas beyond scientific understanding. Are you in some kind of conflict with someone?

I stated earlier on in the thread that I will use an established cosmology as a template from which to present my argument. This is hinduism I suggest you take some time to read up on it, its quite interesting notwithstanding that it considers similar aspects of reality as physics, from a different perspective. I would if I were in your shoes.

There is only one reality and one physics. New age waffle will not conjure another cosmology into being. Give us some of the rules and conditions of this ''established''cosmology. I have read Hindu philosophy,my late wife was a Theosophist so I was steeped in it. It was all nonsense. What are chakras made of?

(I'm opening a book on that
punshhh's answer will be:
2/1 energy
3/1 mind stuff
4/1 subtle matter
5/1 infinities
6/1 I know,but I will not reveal my sources
7/1 I don't know,but I know they're there
1000/1 nothing,because they don't exist )

 

[The Norseman]

I once had an experience during meditation which was like the top of my head opening up and a sensation like the opening of a flower, the unfolding of petals. Followed by a feeling a bit like the warmth of the sun on my face on the top of my head which I visualised as the light of the spiritual sun falling on the flower.

Thank you for your reply.

I have to admit, I have never experienced that sort of thing before. What did it take for you to have these experiences? Dedicated meditation? Travelling to India? Lots of self-help books?

And can you feel your chakra every time you do it and is there always a pain-feeling involved (since you said it's similar to a headache)?

 

[punshhh]

Thank you for your reply.

I have to admit, I have never experienced that sort of thing before. What did it take for you to have these experiences? Dedicated meditation? Travelling to India? Lots of self-help books?

And can you feel your chakra every time you do it and is there always a pain-feeling involved (since you said it's similar to a headache)?

This was through raja yoga meditation.

It was never painfull, I use a relaxation technique daily, in which there is a feeling of alignment, not often as defined as the experience I gave.
I don't meditate now as I had reached a point where it didn't seem to be necessary, as I was effectively meditating in a small way the whole time.

 

[TmoonII]

Did you get souveniers?

No, I didn't get the right protein pill.

 

[dlorde]

I do read science all the time, also I have no argument with any of its findings, I see no conflict.

Odd, considering that most of what you've said that makes any sense does conflict with it... either you're not reading relevant and useful science (in respect of this topic), or simply reading science isn't enough, you need to understand what you've read - your abuse of the terminology here suggests that you don't.

It surprises me how many of the posters here take such a disparaging view of ideas beyond scientific understanding. Are you in some kind of conflict with someone?

'Ideas beyond scientific understanding'? Science is the study of the natural (real) world. Ideas beyond scientific understanding are, by definition, ideas that are not part of the real world. Fantasy doesn't have to follow real-world rules; you can have magic and witchcraft and the supernatural in fantasy, but not in the real world. In these forums, we make a point of distinguishing between the two.

For myself, I don't have a disparaging view of non-scientific ideas that are lucidly and rationally presented. I have a certain respect for some of the mental disciplines of Buddhism, and some of Taoist philosophy - although I may interpret them differently than some. I certainly do have a disparaging view of uninformed or ignorant abuse or misuse of scientific ideas and terminology. No conflict that I am aware of - except in terms of ideas.

I stated earlier on in the thread that I will use an established cosmology as a template from which to present my argument. This is hinduism I suggest you take some time to read up on it, its quite interesting notwithstanding that it considers similar aspects of reality as physics, from a different perspective. I would if I were in your shoes.

I am aware of some of Hindu philosophy, but not to any great depth because I find the dualistic & pluralistic roots untenable and unsupportable, and much of the language obscure and impenetrable. I haven't found anything of interest there, to be honest. If there are any useful nuggets, they're hidden too deep in the woo to be visible from an overview. So much guff, so little time...

I can't say I recognised any Hindu philosophy in your posts here, except where explicitly annotated. Whether that's due to my ignorance of it, or your inability to communicate, I can't say. However, if you want to talk physics and scientific cosmology, you must use the definitions and terminology of physics and scientific cosmology if you expect to be taken seriously. You have failed to do so, or show any understanding of that failure, throughout this thread.

 

[PixyMisa]

I stated earlier on in the thread that I will use an established cosmology as a template from which to present my argument. This is hinduism I suggest you take some time to read up on it, its quite interesting notwithstanding that it considers similar aspects of reality as physics, from a different perspective. I would if I were in your shoes.

Hindu mysticism is not cosmology, it's crap.

 

[dafydd]

I do read science all the time, also I have no argument with any of its findings, I see no conflict.

It surprises me how many of the posters here take such a disparaging view of ideas beyond scientific understanding. Are you in some kind of conflict with someone?

I stated earlier on in the thread that I will use an established cosmology as a template from which to present my argument. This is hinduism I suggest you take some time to read up on it, its quite interesting notwithstanding that it considers similar aspects of reality as physics, from a different perspective. I would if I were in your shoes.

Do you believe that we are in the fifty first year of the present Brahma's life?

 

[Dancing David]

Try hitting your thumb with a hammer, I assure you your mind will not be involved, only your brain.

The mind is the shadow of the brain, it does not exist .

 

[Dancing David]

The brain can operate independently of the mind.

The mind does not exist except as brain events. There is no mind.

 

[Dancing David]

I have no way of proving it, I wish I had. These are not my whimsical fancies, they are well known in other walks of life.

So many people have whimsical fancies.

 

[Dancing David]

It surprises me how many of the posters here take such a disparaging view of ideas beyond scientific understanding. Are you in some kind of conflict with someone?

No more than Harry Potter is in conflict with Niels Bohr.