My argument against materialism

[dafydd]

Thankyou Robin, we have reached the infinity I was refering to in my previous post to Dafydd.

My point is that space-time is an abstraction, a necessary construct for the manifestation of physical matter.

If you deconstruct spacetime by reversing the process of the development of our universe you reach a point where all the atoms and spacetime are reduced to a single point or sphere, in the big bang event.

Likewise all the "collection of infinite multiverses", are at a certain point in their development a single point or sphere.

All these points being outside space and time are the same point.

This point is my definition of infinity and what is refered by the Hindus.

Proof of a collection of multiverses? If you want to discuss science fiction just say so. A point is not a sphere.Space and time did not exist before the Big Bang so nothing could be outside it. Try learning some real science instead of nonsense from old story books. You got the buzzword deconstruct in too.

 

[PixyMisa]

Thankyou Robin, we have reached the infinity I was refering to in my previous post to Dafydd.

My point is that space-time is an abstraction, a necessary construct for the manifestation of physical matter.

If you deconstruct spacetime by reversing the process of the development of our universe you reach a point where all the atoms and spacetime are reduced to a single point or sphere, in the big bang event.

No. If you trace back the expansion of the Universe, it logically was much smaller in the past, and reduces to a singularity about 13.6 billion years ago.

Likewise all the "collection of infinite multiverses", are at a certain point in their development a single point or sphere.

Except that we have no particular reason to think that any such thing exists, and no reason to think that that would be true even so.

Also, points and spheres are not the same thing.

All these points being outside space and time are the same point.

That doesn't appear to mean anything.

This point is my definition of infinity and what is refered by the Hindus.

Sorry, you've wandered off into meaninglessness again. You are correct in one thing, at least - the Hindus had the exact same problem.

 

[dafydd]

Sorry, you've wandered off into meaninglessness again. You are correct in one thing, at least - the Hindus had the exact same problem.

We know a lot more about the universe than the ancient Hindus did.

 

[Irony]

I agree, I tend to use the word vehicle rather than machines.

Those two words are not interchangeable, the only things humans are "vehicles" for are bacteria and the like.

Not quite, I am saying they are not known to exist through testing with mechanical devices.

Including human senses. The word we use to describe such things is "imaginary".

 

[dafydd]

Those two words are not interchangeable, the only things humans are "vehicles" for are bacteria and the like.


Including human senses. The word we use to describe such things is "imaginary".

My contention is that chakras are just as imaginary as leprechauns.

 

[Dancing David]

Does direct experience qualify?

As experience (brain event), but not the existance of any spheres.

Again some concepts are more valid than others.

 

[Dancing David]

I agree, I tend to use the word vehicle rather than machines.


Not quite, I am saying they are not known to exist through testing with mechanical devices.

The body appears to be a machine.

 

[Dancing David]

Yes my point goes right back to my first point in this thread.

Materialism does not consider the implications of an existing physical infinity on and in the very matter itself.

Nor does it consider Undetectable Pink Unicorns or angels on the heads of pins.

 

[dlorde]

So by this reasoning our universe is in 4 dimensions, equivalent to the surface of a sphere in 3 dimensions.

Hence unbounded within a larger bounded geometry.

4 observed dimensions. There may be 7 additional sub-atomically small dimensions that remain unobserved, if M-theory is correct. Your suggestion assumes that our universe is finite but unbounded, which seems likely, but isn't (AFAIAA) confirmed.

I have been visualising something akin to this all along.

Really? you've hidden it very well.

Now lets consider this notional 4D sphere, is it the only sphere in that 4th dimension?

Or is the sphere embedded in a larger geometry, which in turn is populated by a myriad of other spheres?

If you're asking whether there are other universes, the question has been answered many times in this thread - we don't know. It has been proposed that if there are other universes or branes (M-theory), and if they have collided with our own at some point, we could detect the after-effects in the distribution of the CMB (Cosmic Microwave Background). These are very big 'if's, but the only way I've heard that we could potentially detect extraneous universes. At present we don't know if there are any.

 

[Belz...]

I agree, I tend to use the word vehicle rather than machines.

Makes you sound smarter, right ?

Not quite, I am saying they are not known to exist through testing with mechanical devices.

If you can detect them with your senses then they can be detected with machines. Any other claim is dualistic.

 

[Belz...]

Just give it up, guys.

Punshhh isn't here to learn. He's here to confirm what he already believes.

 

[punshhh]

Makes you sound smarter, right ?

No its the terminology I was taught, a vehicle requires a driver, thats why it is more appropriate.

If you can detect them with your senses then they can be detected with machines. Any other claim is dualistic

.

I am refering to personal experience of chakras in your own body, not using the mind.

 

[punshhh]

Just give it up, guys.

Punshhh isn't here to learn. He's here to confirm what he already believes.

Thats not fair, I cannot learn anything from you as my position seems to be directly opposed to yours.

We can only disagree.

 

[dafydd]

No its the terminology I was taught, a vehicle requires a driver, thats why it is more appropriate.

.

I am refering to personal experience of chakras in your own body, not using the mind.

You are always using your mind. I have personal experience of leprechauns,do you believe me?

 

[dafydd]

Thats not fair, I cannot learn anything from you as my position seems to be directly opposed to yours.

We can only disagree.

That's a pity. I've learned a lot since I joined. I have no idea what your position is,you have not done well in expressing it.

 

[punshhh]

No. If you trace back the expansion of the Universe, it logically was much smaller in the past, and reduces to a singularity about 13.6 billion years ago.

Except that we have no particular reason to think that any such thing exists, and no reason to think that that would be true even so.

Also, points and spheres are not the same thing.

That doesn't appear to mean anything.

Sorry, you've wandered off into meaninglessness again. You are correct in one thing, at least - the Hindus had the exact same problem.

I can see only two alternatives;

all existence issues(issued) from one point,

or we have a more uniform, uneventful universe extending into infinity in time and space. With the BBE as a side show.

 

[punshhh]

That's a pity. I've learned a lot since I joined. I have no idea what your position is,you have not done well in expressing it.

I was addressing belz personally, I have been learning quite a lot from other posters.

Surely it is a two way process, when I used to teach woodwork. I often felt that I was learning as much as the students I was teaching.

 

[dafydd]

I was addressing belz personally, I have been learning quite a lot from other posters.

Surely it is a two way process, when I used to teach woodwork. I often felt that I was learning as much as the students I was teaching.

We can learn nothing from you because of your limited knowledge of science and your propensity toward having your own definitions of words.

 

[punshhh]

You are always using your mind. I have personal experience of leprechauns,do you believe me?

If they look like my avatar, then I believe you.

I felt a chakra in my head just as I would feel a headache.

 

[dafydd]

I can see only two alternatives;

all existence issues(issued) from one point,

or we have a more uniform, uneventful universe extending into infinity in time and space. With the BBE as a side show.

That is a hypothesis,there are others. The answer is,as you have been told may times,we don't know.