My anecdotal claims

[Sideroxylon]

Very well put. Limbo should take a leaf out of your book, he seems incapable of explaining anything.

Yes, that's got me feeling more enlightened on the subject.

 

[SusanB-M1]

One of the effects of experiencing a higher level of consciousness is that you can't explain what it is. It fills your mind with multisyllabic words that you throw around without any regard to their meaning. It also increases your ego to the point that you think you know more than every expert in every field.

I think you have summed up the self-deluded state exactly!

A higher level of consciousness is what you get when you use mystical disciplines, such as Yoga, successfully. Your consciousness becomes altered.
Mystical (higher) states of consciousness are not day-to-day states that people are familiar with and so they are difficult to describe.
Transpersonal psychologists study them. Mystical disciplines, such as Yoga, elicit them and help the body to endure their harsh demands.

Thank you for responding, Limbo, but what you say doesn't seem to connect to reality!

Why do you keep calling them higher states of consciousness? How can you be sure that they're not actually lower states of consciousness, or equal alternate states of consciousness, or dream-like states of semi-consciousness?

Yes, I think that's an important point! The word 'higher' gives them the illusion of being above ordinary mortals, I suppose!!

Because you can feel your consciousness expanding beyond the lower day-to-day states. It's really cool.

don't you think it would be more accurate to say that you can imagine this what you call 'expansion'?

 

[tsig]

Oh Ok, I'll take your word for it since tsig is on my ignore list.

QED!

Being a mystic means ignoring a lot.

(like the whole of reality)

 

[Limbo]

Wrong about the existence of UFOs and PSI? It will not be for ignoring evidence.

What I was getting at is that you seem to sidestep possible falsifying evidence of things like PSI. I am referring to your earlier mention of the "trickster effect". Don't you see the problem with taking such a position?

Since I am the one who has actually put in the time and effort to understand trickster theory, I guess it's up to me to decide for myself if there is a problem with taking such a position. And based on my studies of comparative mythology, parapsychology and UFology, which I also put time and effort into, I decide there is no problem. Based on my personal experiences I decide no, there is no problem.

The problem is your belief-system bub.

 

[Limbo]

Thank you for responding, Limbo, but what you say doesn't seem to connect to reality!

Oh yes it does. What it's not connecting with is YOUR belief-system, which you are confusing with reality.

Your belief-system has not prepared you to properly understand mysticism. It prepared you to overlook it.

Without understanding mysticism it's impossible to really understand world religion and myth. Without really understanding religion it's rather foolish to commit to a secular belief-system but hey knock yourselves out.

don't you think it would be more accurate to say that you can imagine this what you call 'expansion'?

Have you ever imagined such a thing?

The fact is, you guys and gals just don't know what you're talking about. You haven't put in the study of the right academic fields. This is obvious to me because I have put in the study. It takes time and study and effort to understand mysticism. That might come as a shock to some of you. Some of you seem to figure that just being a card-carrying skeptic is enough.

Want to begin to understand it? Read these.

Mysticism

The History of Mysticism: The Unchanging Testament

 

[dafydd]

Since I have actually put in the effort to understand trickster theory, I guess it's up to me to decide for myself if there is a problem with taking such a position. And based on my studies of comparative mythology, parapsychology and UFology, I decide no. Based on my personal experiences I decide no.

Theory, lol.

 

[dafydd]

Oh yes it does. What it's not connecting with is YOUR belief-system.




Have you ever imagined such a thing? Quite a coincidence that a mystic happens to imagine classical mystical experiences, eh?

Imagine is all they do. It's not real.

 

[Brian-M]

Your error is in assuming that logic is the key to unlocking the riddle.

Then what is the key to unlocking the riddle? Wordplay?

For example:

Riddle: What kind of key doesn't open any locks?
Solution: A monkey. (Monk-Key)

Riddle: What kind of room has no windows or doors?
Solution: A mushroom.

In which case, I'll have to go with Terry Pratchett's answer. The sound of one hand clapping is: CL-

Because a mystic can't become privy to heavenly secrets without reaching a certain mystical milestone.

Why not? Will the secrets fry their brain?

The very same milestone that would enable a mystic to solve their riddle thus showing that he or she has transcended mundane modes of thought and ordinary levels of consciousness long enough to grok something of gnosis.

Why phrase it like that? Gnosis is simply the Greek word for knowledge, but is sometimes used in English to refer to mystical knowledge. Grok means to understand intuitively or by empathy. Transcend means to pass beyond the limits of something. Mundane is synonymous with ordinary or non-magical.

What you're basically saying is, until they've reached the point where they can solve the riddle, they won't be able to understand the revelation.

In which case, why bother encoding the revelation in the form of a riddle in the first place?

I'm guessing that you're planning to use this argument as an excuse for evading questions. Something that boils down to...

I know all kinds of things, but I'm not going to tell you what they are because you wouldn't understand them. Just trust me when I tell you that I know these things.

So if the question "What is the sound of one hand clapping" is a riddle, then what's the answer? If the key to the riddle is not logic or wordplay, then what is they key?

I'm not really convinced the question is actually a riddle to start with.

Your understanding of the universe is more fragile than you seem to think bub.

I'm pretty sure that your communication skills are more tenuous than you seem to think.

don't you think it would be more accurate to say that you can imagine this what you call 'expansion'?

Have you ever imagined such a thing?

I can't speak for SusanB-M1, but I have imagined such a thing. It's not hard if you have an active imagination.

The fact is, you guys and gals just don't know what you're talking about. You haven't put in the study of the right academic fields. This is obvious to me because I have put in the study. It takes time and study and effort to understand mysticism. That might come as a shock to some of you. Some of you seem to figure that just being a card-carrying skeptic is enough.

Want to begin to understand it? Read these.

Mysticism

The History of Mysticism: The Unchanging Testament

So you expect us to spend good money on these books, and spend dozens of hours reading them?

Why should we do that when we believe the subject to be complete nonsense?

You're going about the process backward. The first step is to convince your audience that there is something about the subject that warrants further investigation. The second step is to direct them to resources that will allow them to develop a greater understanding of the subject.

You're jumping to the second step without having completed the first.

 

[gentlehorse]

Without understanding mysticism it's impossible to really understand world religion and myth. Without really understanding religion it's rather foolish to commit to a secular belief-system but hey knock yourselves out.

...

The fact is, you guys and gals just don't know what you're talking about. You haven't put in the study of the right academic fields. This is obvious to me because I have put in the study. It takes time and study and effort to understand mysticism.

While you are learning to battle evil entities at the behest of goddesses, and expanding you awareness to avoid being reincarnated, some of us focus our attention on the mundane: developing vaccines, improving surgical techniques and tools, studying diseases, etc. While undoubtedly terribly dull when compared to your adventures, the results benefit humanity noticeably.

 

[Mudcat]

Wrong about the existence of UFOs and PSI? It will not be for ignoring evidence.

Ah, but PSI does indeed exist, without it I wouldn't be able to keep my bike tires properly inflated... or are we talking about a different kind of PSI?

 

[Limbo]

While you are learning to battle evil entities at the behest of goddesses, and expanding you awareness to avoid being reincarnated, some of us focus our attention on the mundane: developing vaccines, improving surgical techniques and tools, studying diseases, etc. While undoubtedly terribly dull when compared to your adventures, the results benefit humanity noticeably.

No doubt. Thank you for your contributions.

 

[Limbo]

Then what is the key to unlocking the riddle? Wordplay?

The key is achieving an altered state of consciousness in which the mystic "hears" the sound of one hand clapping. Gods hand. It "sounds" like this. Aum.

In which case, why bother encoding the revelation in the form of a riddle in the first place?

They are useful as mantras.

Why should we do that when we believe the subject to be complete nonsense?

Why should you believe a subject that you know nothing about is complete nonsense in the first place? Because some debunker says so? Because some religious fundamentalist pissed you off or disappointed you in the past? Because some atheist scientist mistakenly thinks his scientific expertise qualifies him to understand religion? Because your culture programmed you to?

 

[Brian-M]

Ah, but PSI does indeed exist, without it I wouldn't be able to keep my bike tires properly inflated...

Not true, PSI is just kPa in disguise, to keep the myth of PSI alive.

 

[slingblade]

Why should you believe a subject that you know nothing about is complete nonsense in the first place? Because some debunker says so? Because some religious fundamentalist pissed you off in the past? Because some atheist scientist thinks his scientific expertise qualifies him to understand religion? Because your culture programmed you to?

Because it hasn't happened to me, and no one to whom it has happened can provide a shred of evidence that it's ever happened to anyone at all.

Why do you keep rejecting this simple, fundamental principle?

 

[dafydd]

Because it hasn't happened to me, and no one to whom it has happened can provide a shred of evidence that it's ever happened to anyone at all.

Why do you keep rejecting this simple, fundamental principle?

Because it would blow his belief system out of the water.

 

[Resume]

Why should you believe a subject that you know nothing about is complete nonsense in the first place? Because some debunker says so? Because some religious fundamentalist pissed you off or disappointed you in the past? Because some atheist scientist mistakenly thinks his scientific expertise qualifies him to understand religion? Because your culture programmed you to?

Because it's complete nonsense.

 

[dafydd]

Why should you believe a subject that you know nothing about is complete nonsense in the first place? ?

Why do keep making this false assumption? When I was younger and stupider I believed all that nonsense too. With age comes wisdom. I have read all the books. The older I got the more I realized that there was not a shred of proof. How well read in science are you? You appear to be commenting on subjects that you know nothing about.

 

[ExMinister]

Then there was the 'poltergeist'. Saw **** fly around the apartment and stuff. A group of scared girls and a ouija board can unleash quite the RSPK storm, lemme tell ya.

Speaking of anecdotes, can you tell more about this? What kind of stuff? Flying around how so? Were you there personally? Who was on the board? What happened?

I do like Ouija board stories.

Sad to say, nothing exciting ever happened to me with one, even before I was a skeptic.

I am one of the few strange people who can get one to work all by myself, though. That is bizarre. No one to secretly suspect of cheating when you're on it by yourself.

 

[dafydd]

Speaking of anecdotes, can you tell more about this? What kind of stuff? Flying around how so? Were you there personally? Who was on the board? What happened?

I do like Ouija board stories.

Sad to say, nothing exciting ever happened to me with one, even before I was a skeptic.

I am one of the few strange people who can get one to work all by myself, though. That is bizarre. No one to secretly suspect of cheating when you're on it by yourself.

The ideomotor effect works just as well when you're by yourself. Why are you interested in Limbo's fantasies?

 

[Limbo]

Speaking of anecdotes, can you tell more about this? What kind of stuff? Flying around how so? Were you there personally? Who was on the board? What happened?

I do like Ouija board stories.

Sad to say, nothing exciting ever happened to me with one, even before I was a skeptic.

I am one of the few strange people who can get one to work all by myself, though. That is bizarre. No one to secretly suspect of cheating when you're on it by yourself.

A group of teenage girls, one of them pregnant. Doing ouija on a dark scary night. Well, I don't believe that a literal "demon" threatened her unborn baby. But her fear for her baby was triggered somehow and they all freaked. The collective RSPK of the girls manifested. It did some classic stuff. It interfered with electrical and it tossed some house-hold items around. It took us a while to straighten up the place. It took me longer to calm the pregnant one down. She had nightmares for a long time.