Muslim cleric calls for beheading of Geert Wilders

[Uncayimmy]

I agree. No need for the quibbling. The name Al Qaeda had it's origins from the OBL encampment (The Base) in Afghanistan, or so I've always believed.

I think you guys are just riding Skeptic's ass. It seems to me he was pointing out that Arabic lacks a wide variety of roots, so context is often needed to determine meaning for a specific word. He used a well known example. He explained that in the discussion here regarding killing there does exist enough variety of language to provide for reasonable translations.

It's funny that the so-called experts in Arabic don't seem to demonstrate the same grasp of English. Base has its roots in basis, which in turn has its roots in <wait for it> a place one stands. In English base has 25 definitions for the noun form, so you really do need context to pick the right translation, just like you need to know the context to make the right translation for Al Qaeda.

This was offered in contrast to explain that context is probably not an issue in choosing the right translation regarding killing. In English one may need context once you get beyond terms like kill, murder, assassinate and slaughter (to name a few). Words like neutralize, extinguish and eradicate can mean kill in the right context. They can also mean other things that don't involve killing. For example:

I call upon my skeptic brothers to (kill, murder, assassinate and slaughter) politicians who support teaching creationism in public schools.

I call upon my skeptic brothers to (neutralize, extinguish and eradicate) politicians who support teaching creationism in public schools.

Somebody could play games with the translation and give examples of how people use the terms neutralize, extinguish and eradicate in the context of killing and claim that the latter was a call to violence. Skeptic was pointing out that this wasn't the case.

 

[SezMe]

Alright, jokes aside, isn't it weird this article doesn't name this Muslim cleric until the 4th paragraph?

That's not the weird part for me. So some Islamic loon halfway 'round the world from Wilders makes some outrageous statement. Why is this news at all? Who felt it necessary to write up the story? Why did Yahoo carry it?

Leaders of Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, etc., etc. make dumb proclamations all the time. It's not news.

 

[WildCat]

That's not the weird part for me. So some Islamic loon halfway 'round the world from Wilders makes some outrageous statement. Why is this news at all? Who felt it necessary to write up the story? Why did Yahoo carry it?

Because no Islamic loon has ever incited a killing halfway around the world...

 

[GreNME]

It's funny that the so-called experts in Arabic don't seem to demonstrate the same grasp of English.

Since no one here has claimed expertise, and in fact at least I've pointed out specifically that I wasn't challenging Skeptic's take on Arabic in my first response, I find your accusation that there are folks here who have some reading comprehension problems to be amusing.

 

[SezMe]

Because no Islamic loon has ever incited a killing halfway around the world...

Precisely my point. That Islamic loons do this is not news. And, secondly, that had the story been ignored no fundamentalist anywhere would have been incited by some loon screeching to himself in total isolation.

 

[Uncayimmy]

Precisely my point. That Islamic loons do this is not news. And, secondly, that had the story been ignored no fundamentalist anywhere would have been incited by some loon screeching to himself in total isolation.

If he screeched to himself in isolation, no news organization would have picked it up. The article referred to him as a "well-known Australian Muslim cleric." The Sydney Morning Herald had this to say about him:

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-new...alls-for-beheading-report-20100903-14unw.html
In 2007, he was named by national security sources as one of at least 10 hardliners who were preaching fundamentalist messages in Australia, propagating a Wahabi ideology espoused by al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden.

In the same year, Mohammad, who was believed to be living in the Middle East, came to the attention of Australia's attorneys-general when his lectures were included in a box set of DVDs which urged young Muslims to kill non-believers.

I call it newsworthy.

 

[bit_pattern]

He's only "well known" in the sense that his delusional rantings are sometimes picked up by the Australian media and given extensive airtime. Although that SMH article certainly adds a dimension of menace to him I don't think he his particularly influential outside of a small circle of extremists.

 

[Orphia Nay]

I don't think he his particularly influential outside of a small circle of extremists.

That's what the FBI and CIA thought about bin Laden, prior to September 11, 2001.

 

[Skeptic]

I agree. No need for the quibbling. The name Al Qaeda had it's origins from the OBL encampment (The Base) in Afghanistan, or so I've always believed.


Compus

I was being too sophisticated for my own good here, I guess, but I certainly didn't mean to say that it there is some mysterious deep connection between al Quaeda and "sitting" as far as the speaker is concerned.

When someone says "Qa'eda" or (in Hebrew) "Moshav", they aren't thinking about the etymological source or absolute literal meaning of the word. They are just saying "base".

My point was just etymological, pointing out that due to this "Queda" can mean other things than "military base".

 

[Skeptic]

He's only "well known" in the sense that his delusional rantings are sometimes picked up by the Australian media and given extensive airtime.

That is due to the fact that he is Australian by citizenship, I suppose. In Malaysia such tiny minority of extremists preachers from the religion of peace are a dime a dozen, but most don't have Australian citizenship.

 

[Uncayimmy]

He's only "well known" in the sense that his delusional rantings are sometimes picked up by the Australian media and given extensive airtime. Although that SMH article certainly adds a dimension of menace to him I don't think he his particularly influential outside of a small circle of extremists.

Same could be said of Charlie Manson.

When someone has influence over others and publicly calls for mass murder or the murder of a prominent person, that's news, and the point I was responding to was someone questioning why a news organization would cover it. That's all.

 

[SezMe]

That's what the FBI and CIA thought about bin Laden, prior to September 11, 2001.

No, they didn't. Various elements of the US government intelligence worked with bin Laden long before 911 precisely because they thought he was influential.

 

[Orphia Nay]

No, they didn't. Various elements of the US government intelligence worked with bin Laden long before 911 precisely because they thought he was influential.

I thought that was basically a conspiracy theory. It's not discussed in "The Looming Tower".

 

[bit_pattern]

Same could be said of Charlie Manson.

When someone has influence over others and publicly calls for mass murder or the murder of a prominent person, that's news, and the point I was responding to was someone questioning why a news organization would cover it. That's all.

Yeah, no sweat, I was just clarifying what I know of the guy, that's all

 

[ddt]

Precisely my point. That Islamic loons do this is not news. And, secondly, that had the story been ignored no fundamentalist anywhere would have been incited by some loon screeching to himself in total isolation.

The article in the Telegraaf mentioned he had done this call to behead Wilders specifically to Dutch Muslims in an internet conference. So yes, I can see why this news. Furthermore, Wilders is very angry - understandably - that he read it in the Telegraaf, and didn't hear it from the Dutch intelligence agency which purportedly has a copy of this video too. The article also claims Feiz Muhammed is very influential in jihadist circles, FWIW.

This is plain incitement to murder, the guy should do time for it.

It's also very stupid. In fact, he helps Wilders in getting more support from possible voters. On the other hand, this news is overshadowed by the breaking-off of the negotiations for a new government - a center-right coalition was being explored which would be supported by Wilders - because Wilders overplayed his hand. That was the big news yesterday, and all the news shows were full with pundits giving their commentary. If it weren't for the JREF, I guess I would have missed the news of this "cleric".

 

[commandlinegamer]

Put them both in a large room with lots of condoms and lube, lock the door, and leave them alone. Two more lovers in the world.

ftfy

 

[WildCat]

No, they didn't. Various elements of the US government intelligence worked with bin Laden long before 911 precisely because they thought he was influential.

Uh, what?

 

[rwguinn]

I am reminded of the "blame the victim" thread...
irony, irony everywhere

 

[PhantomWolf]

No, they didn't. Various elements of the US government intelligence worked with bin Laden long before 911 precisely because they thought he was influential.

Evidence for that. Various elements of the Saudi government intelligence worked with bin Laden during the fight against the Soviets in Afghanistan from the early 80's until 1990, but the US never worked with him and CIA didn't even have records of him until there were a number of minor confrontations between his men and the CIA's in Sudan in 1993.

 

[GreNME]

I am reminded of the "blame the victim" thread...
irony, irony everywhere

Can you define which of the two are the victim here: Wilders or Feiz Muhammad? They both seem to be hateful instigators here, so I'm trying to figure out which one you're claiming irony about so that I can figure out whether we agree or disagree.