Muslim Bus(ted)

[Meadmaker]

This idea isn't so bad/ I absolutely adore the way buses are covered in religious ritual objects and decorations in the Latin countries. They're beautiful works of folk art.

I recently went to a Mexican auto factory. I was surprised to find little shrines to the Virgin Mary around the plant. They basically consist of a hanging picture of the Virgin, with garlands of Evergreen or flowers strung around them, and white Chrismas tree lights. They were pretty cool, but they didn't seem to stop the line from breaking down.

 

[joobz]

I am a white convert to Islam.

What the brother did was wrong.

I assume he must have been a new convert.

I appreciate his enthusian for the religion but he needs to be instructed by some knowledgable Muslims as to the rules and allowances for prayer time.

When at work a Muslim needs to wait for break time to pray. Or do a make-up prayer if that's not possible.

that seems like a reasonable approach. Thank you.

 

[joobz]

I recently went to a Mexican auto factory. I was surprised to find little shrines to the Virgin Mary around the plant. They basically consist of a hanging picture of the Virgin, with garlands of Evergreen or flowers strung around them, and white Chrismas tree lights. They were pretty cool, but they didn't seem to stop the line from breaking down.

well just imagine how many break downs they would have if the DIDN'T have those shrines. jeez.

 

[bruto]

I am a white convert to Islam.

What the brother did was wrong.

I assume he must have been a new convert.

I appreciate his enthusian for the religion but he needs to be instructed by some knowledgable Muslims as to the rules and allowances for prayer time.

When at work a Muslim needs to wait for break time to pray. Or do a make-up prayer if that's not possible.

The whole incident seems to have surprised the bus company too, and I suspect that this is because they are accustomed to Muslim bus drivers and assumed he'd know the ropes. Good fodder if you're collecting anti-Muslim ammunition, but otherwise it really comes off more as a man-bites-dog story.

 

[Space_Ed]

Yay science.

My mate actually has a compass on built into his prayer mat.

 

[Space_Ed]

I am a white convert to Islam.

What the brother did was wrong.

I assume he must have been a new convert.

I appreciate his enthusian for the religion but he needs to be instructed by some knowledgable Muslims as to the rules and allowances for prayer time.

When at work a Muslim needs to wait for break time to pray. Or do a make-up prayer if that's not possible.

You need to be careful waving that around in here.

 

[Mobyseven]

I am a white convert to Islam.

What the brother did was wrong.

I assume he must have been a new convert.

I appreciate his enthusian for the religion but he needs to be instructed by some knowledgable Muslims as to the rules and allowances for prayer time.

When at work a Muslim needs to wait for break time to pray. Or do a make-up prayer if that's not possible.

Good response. I'd be sad if the guy got fired over this - he should have communicated better with his employer beforehand, but now that the issue has come up these are sensible ideas to prevent it from happening again.

 

[skeptical]

Good response. I'd be sad if the guy got fired over this - he should have communicated better with his employer beforehand, but now that the issue has come up these are sensible ideas to prevent it from happening again.

Why would it be sad? The guy showed an unbelievable lack of judgment and the company has every right to fire him.

He needs to learn that he cannot force others to respect his wishes just because he grounds them in religion. If it takes getting fired for him to understand that, so be it. A lot of people have been fired for much less than this, so I don't see why he should get a pass on being an idiot just because he is a religious idiot.

 

[Mobyseven]

Why would it be sad? The guy showed an unbelievable lack of judgment and the company has every right to fire him.

He needs to learn that he cannot force others to respect his wishes just because he grounds them in religion. If it takes getting fired for him to understand that, so be it. A lot of people have been fired for much less than this, so I don't see why he should get a pass on being an idiot just because he is a religious idiot.

Yeah, he demonstrated poor judgement. And what was the outcome? People were late. Some were baselessly scared of him. Why go to the extremes of firing him when there is less severe disciplinary action available, and when it is highly unlikely that the situation will repeat itself.

The guy asked people to get off his bus so that he could pray. He didn't crash a busload of schoolkids feredssake.

If every idiot in the world were unemployed, there wouldn't be many people left working.

 

[sophia8]

The whole incident seems to have surprised the bus company too, and I suspect that this is because they are accustomed to Muslim bus drivers and assumed he'd know the ropes. Good fodder if you're collecting anti-Muslim ammunition, but otherwise it really comes off more as a man-bites-dog story.

I once used to work a stall in a street market. The stallholder next to me was an observant Muslim who went off to his regular prayers each day. But if prayer-time came and there was a customer at his stall, or merely somebody who looked like they just might be in the mood for buying something, he'd stay there and sell. Then he'd go off to pray.
That's how every Muslim I've ever known does it - they fit in prayers around the real business of work.

 

[espritch]

I'd be sad if the guy got fired over this - he should have communicated better with his employer beforehand, but now that the issue has come up these are sensible ideas to prevent it from happening again.

The man decided his personal religious convictions justified inconveniencing of all the passengers on his bus. The man is self centered jerk and deserves to be fired.

I tend to take a live and let live approach to religious nonsense. But when someone decides they have a right to inconvenience others for the sake of their religious nonsense, or worse, impose their religious nonsense on others, I take offense.

 

[bruto]

The man decided his personal religious convictions justified inconveniencing of all the passengers on his bus. The man is self centered jerk and deserves to be fired.

I tend to take a live and let live approach to religious nonsense. But when someone decides they have a right to inconvenience others for the sake of their religious nonsense, or worse, impose their religious nonsense on others, I take offense.

Taking offense is one thing, but without knowing a little more about the case, I think firing is pretty extreme. We don't know how old he is, how long he's worked there, how good a bus driver, etc. If, as Sunni Man surmises, he was a recent convert, unfamiliar with the finer points of observance and flushed with enthusiasm, it seems more reasonable to give him a stern warning to get his priorities straight or risk firing next time. If he's a real fool or fanatic, he'll do it again and they can fire him soon enough. If he isn't, then he'll calm down, drive buses, pray when it's appropriate, and no harm will be done, and no offense to the muslim community either.

 

[Rasmus]

Taking offense is one thing, but without knowing a little more about the case, I think firing is pretty extreme.

The guy stopped working and asked (i.e. "forced" since he has the power to order passengers around) people off the bus on a whim.

What other reasons to act like that would you find acceptable enough to not fire the bus driver?

We don't know how old he is, how long he's worked there, how good a bus driver, etc.

I know he is a ridiculously bad bus driver.

If, as Sunni Man surmises, he was a recent convert, unfamiliar with the finer points of observance and flushed with enthusiasm, it seems more reasonable to give him a stern warning to get his priorities straight or risk firing next time.

What on earth would make anyone think that they have a right to simply stop working and boss a busload (Ha!) of people around just to convenience you?

Why should I trust such a person to be responsible for passengers and equipment? Why should I allow such a person to represent my company?

It would be okay to not fire him, of course. But I would understand and the support the decision to get rid of such a person.

If he's a real fool or fanatic, he'll do it again and they can fire him soon enough. If he isn't, then he'll calm down, drive buses, pray when it's appropriate, and no harm will be done, and no offense to the muslim community either.

Why should anyone care if the Muslim community gets offended over this? (Unless we'd have to fear being bombed to pieces over the issue, of course ...) Especially since they seem to be mostly of the opinion that waht the guy did was wrong.

Why should they say that as well as be offended?

 

[Sunni Man]

Why should anyone care if the Muslim community gets offended over this? (Unless we'd have to fear being bombed to pieces over the issue, of course ...) Especially since they seem to be mostly of the opinion that waht the guy did was wrong.

Why should they say that as well as be offended?

No Muslim I know would be offended over this issue.

In Islam you have a few hours between each of the prayers.


On days that I work. I do my first prayer before going to work, and the noon prayer on my lunch hour.

The third prayer is in the afternoon. I am working when that prayer time arrives. So I can't pray right then.

But Islam allows me to delay that prayer till later.

So after work when I'm at home. I combine the afternoon third prayer and the forth evening prayer at the same time.

Like I said before, this guy must have been a newbie and unaware of the allowances of prayer times.

 

[Rufo]

Am I the only one who found this a bit stupid?

After a few minutes the driver calmly got up, opened the doors and asked everyone back on board.

But they saw a rucksack lying on the floor of the red single-decker and feared he might be a fanatic. So they all refused.

They all refused? I can understand if a few of them were a little nervous, but I can't believe how people are overreacting. How strange does a Muslim have to behave for his rucksack to be suspected of containing explosives? Isn't it more likely that someone looking to blow them all to pieces would not first ask them to leave the place of the explosion? I wish people could be more relaxed about stupid mistakes like these.

 

[gtc]

Am I the only one who found this a bit stupid?

They all refused? I can understand if a few of them were a little nervous, but I can't believe how people are overreacting. How strange does a Muslim have to behave for his rucksack to be suspected of containing explosives? Isn't it more likely that someone looking to blow them all to pieces would not first ask them to leave the place of the explosion? I wish people could be more relaxed about stupid mistakes like these.

After the July 7 bombings people are naturally suspicious of muslims with back packs behaving strangely around public transport. Its not our fault; its the fault of the splodey-dopes who blow themselves up, the spiritual and civil leaders who encourage them and the members of their communities who turn a blind eye to both.

It also seems odd to speculate about what is normal behaviour for someone about to blow themselves and their fellow humans to smithereens on the say so of an invisible God and in the expectation of supping sherbert with 72 virgins.

Would you be willing to bet your life that he wasn't having second thoughts about blowing up the bus and looking for an excuse to get people off the bus or praying for guidance? I know I wouldn't be.

 

[bruto]

The guy stopped working and asked (i.e. "forced" since he has the power to order passengers around) people off the bus on a whim.

Granted, it was wrong, and even stupid, but it was not a whim.

What other reasons to act like that would you find acceptable enough to not fire the bus driver?

I have no idea. I would assume one would look at such cases individually.

I know he is a ridiculously bad bus driver.

You may. I do not. I know he did a bad job that day, but I do not know if he was a lousy driver, or if he had driven buses safely and efficiently for the last 25 years. It might make a difference.

What on earth would make anyone think that they have a right to simply stop working and boss a busload (Ha!) of people around just to convenience you?

Why should I trust such a person to be responsible for passengers and equipment? Why should I allow such a person to represent my company?

It would be okay to not fire him, of course. But I would understand and the support the decision to get rid of such a person.

Well, that last is really all I'm saying. I think it would be premature for us to say he should be fired out of hand without knowing a little more about him and his history. A second chance seems reasonable.

Why should anyone care if the Muslim community gets offended over this? (Unless we'd have to fear being bombed to pieces over the issue, of course ...) Especially since they seem to be mostly of the opinion that waht the guy did was wrong.

Why should they say that as well as be offended?

Perhaps, but being of the opinion that what he did was wrong (which certainly seems to be an area of general agreement) does not equal being of the opinion that he should be fired for it.

 

[skeptical]

Yeah, he demonstrated poor judgement. And what was the outcome? People were late. Some were baselessly scared of him. Why go to the extremes of firing him when there is less severe disciplinary action available, and when it is highly unlikely that the situation will repeat itself.

Firing someone is not an extreme, that is what happens when you perform your job poorly. He could be fired simply for not taking the correct route and getting people late, THAT IS HIS JOB. If you cannot perform you job properly, that is exactly a reason to fire someone. Period. In addition to not performing his duties to get people where they were going in a safe and expeditious manner, he showed unbelievabley poor judgment. I can't think of a better reason to fire someone.

The guy asked people to get off his bus so that he could pray. He didn't crash a busload of schoolkids feredssake.

So, do you think grounds for firing require a homicide? On top of which, why should an employer trust someone with a second chance who showed such poor judgment the first time? If a CEO consulted a oujii board to determine whether to make a major financial decision, should he be given a second chance with your hard earned stock dollars? I think not.

If every idiot in the world were unemployed, there wouldn't be many people left working.

He can find another job and chalk it up to experience. Idiots get fired every day, they find other work and try to do better, that's life. Anyone with the level of judgment of this guy shouldn't be driving an ice cream truck, much less a bus full of people. McDonald's is usually hiring, burger flipping sounds more up his alley.

 

[Sunni Man]

It turns out that the story was made up.

The Slough and Windsor Observer reports:

"London United Busways say they have carried out a full investigation after driver Arunas Raulynaitis rolled out his prayer mat to perform his daily prayers, facing Mecca on the number 81 bus in Langley. Bosses have analysed evidence, including CCTV footage, and say the driver was actually on his 10-minute break when the incident took place at around 1.30pm on Thursday.

"They added that the control room had in fact radioed Mr Raulynaitis to terminate the bus outside Langley Fire Station in London Road because it was running late due to road works. Passengers were asked to leave the vehicle while they waited for another bus to pick them up to complete their journey.

"Steffan Evans, spokesman for London United Busways, said: 'The bus was delayed and by the time it had reached Langley the next bus on the route had caught up. At this point the bus service controller decided that in order to maintain the frequency of the buses he would curtail the late bus, and therefore instructed the driver to transfer his passengers in order that they could continue their journey without any further delay'."

 

[Mobyseven]

Firing someone is not an extreme, that is what happens when you perform your job poorly. He could be fired simply for not taking the correct route and getting people late, THAT IS HIS JOB. If you cannot perform you job properly, that is exactly a reason to fire someone. Period. In addition to not performing his duties to get people where they were going in a safe and expeditious manner, he showed unbelievabley poor judgment. I can't think of a better reason to fire someone.

Wow. I certainly hope you don't have the power to fire employees wherever it is you work, because the turnover rate would be huge. It wouldn't matter how long they've worked for you for, or what the size of the offense committed...one strike, and they'd be out!

You've honestly never heard of 'cautioning' or 'warning' employees? Putting them on probation? Other types of disciplinary action that save the employee from being fired for a first time offense, save you from having to go through the process of hiring another employee, and that keeps morale up (hard to have high morale when you know your first slip up will cost you your job).

So, do you think grounds for firing require a homicide? On top of which, why should an employer trust someone with a second chance who showed such poor judgment the first time? If a CEO consulted a oujii board to determine whether to make a major financial decision, should he be given a second chance with your hard earned stock dollars? I think not.

Except this isn't a CEO consulting a oujii board to make stock decisions. This is a bus driver, probably a new convert to Islam (though we don't know exactly his situation) asking people to leave his bus for ten minutes so that he could pray (and, as it turns out, he was on his break anyway). You'd think that if, for example, the leader of a country took his people to war based on false premises that he wouldn't find himself reelected. But sometimes, people who are extrodinarily bad at their jobs, or who show incredibly bad judgment, get to keep their jobs. In the grand scheme of things, the mistake this guy made (or that we thought he made) was on the pretty low end of the scale, and is highly unlikely to happen again. There's no reason to force a lose-lose situation by firing him.

He can find another job and chalk it up to experience. Idiots get fired every day, they find other work and try to do better, that's life. Anyone with the level of judgment of this guy shouldn't be driving an ice cream truck, much less a bus full of people. McDonald's is usually hiring, burger flipping sounds more up his alley.

Wow. Intolerance, thy name is 'skeptical'...